I've read quite widely that Cobain sent numerous tapes to Touch And Go in an attempt to get Nirvana's music released by them. They obviously did partially when they did the split with The Jesus Lizard. But I'm talking about album releases and whatnot.

I was just wondering the other day, if this happened what effect it would have had on the shape of popular music. Would they have signed to Geffen? It may have dissuaded Cobain's desire for mainstream recognition. I think some of it was the limitations he felt when they did sign for Sub Pop. I don't know.

If Nevermind didn't happen, the world would be a different place I'm sure. I think if Nirvana had signed to Touch And Go then they would probably have been a better band.

Thoughts?

I think they would've still gotten as big as they were if they were signed to T&G instead of SP. I read in one of their bios, Cobain wanted to sign to Geffen because of the positive way Sonic Youth was treated. I think they had the same management, also.

If say, they had signed with T&G, and did their indie version of nevermind, it might have had the same songs, although Vig wouldn't have touched it. Then possibly, then it wouldn't have made such an impact on the mainstream. That's not to say Vig was instrumental in their rise, but a polished album would do better in my mind.

Skronk wrote:I think they would've still gotten as big as they were if they were signed to T&G instead of SP. I read in one of their bios, Cobain wanted to sign to Geffen because of the positive way Sonic Youth was treated. I think they had the same management, also.

If say, they had signed with T&G, and did their indie version of nevermind, it might have had the same songs, although Vig wouldn't have touched it. Then possibly, then it wouldn't have made such an impact on the mainstream. That's not to say Vig was instrumental in their rise, but a polished album would do better in my mind.

Vig recorded records for Killdozer on T&G, didn't he? (This isn't snark; I honestly don't know.) Vig also recorded at least one band for Sub Pop before he did Nevermind: TAD's 8-Way Santa. I imagine that he would have been a likely choice for the band regardless of the label.

Butch Vig would have recorded the album. Look at the records he produced before Nevermind -

1991: Tad - 8-Way Santa
1991: The Young Fresh Fellows - Electric Bird Digest
1991: Die Kreuzen - Cement
1990: Urge Overkill - Americruiser
1990: King Snake Roost - Ground into Dirt
1990: Laughing Hyenas - Life of Crime
1990: The Fluid - Glue
1989: Killdozer - For Ladies Only
1988: Die Kreuzen - Century Days
1987: The Other Kids - Happy Home
1987: Killdozer - Little Baby Buntin'
1985: The Other Kids - Living In The Mirror
1985: Killdozer - 12 Point Buck
1985: Killdozer - Snakeboy
1984: Killdozer - Intellectuals Are the Shoeshine Boys of the Ruling Elite
1982: Die Kreuzen - Internal

People seem to think Vig was some slick major label producer. He was chosen for his work with Killdozer. Cobain picked Andy Wallace because he saw his name on the back of a Slayer album.

It's a fair enough point though. Without Geffen, no flashy rabble-rousing videos and therefore probably about 5% of the sales it achieved through MTV.

Ha, what da ya know, you learn something everyday. Vig did Die Kruezen too. That wiki, she is useful.

tommydski wrote:Cobain picked Andy Wallace because he saw his name on the back of a Slayer album.

That rules. Too bad he didn't pick Bill Metoyer instead.

the world wouldn't have changed much for me.

there are lots of mediocre bands on TG that i don't listen to.

ERawk wrote: Remember that Sub Pop was in such bad financial shape that the sweetheart deal they got from Geffen regarding Nirvana enabled them to stay afloat and operate to this day, and even that was unexpected. I think it's highly likely that Sub Pop would have gone the way of SST if they went to T&G instead.

I'm on the fence about the belief that Nirvana's success saved Sub Pop. They certainly gave Sub Pop a huge financial cushion, but at the time, the SP guys insisted that it was, in fact, Mudhoney's Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge that saved the label. That record sold something like 100,000 copies and came out a month or two before Nevermind.

But who knows what would have happened without Nevermind? Bruce and Jon may have ended up blowing through the Mudhoney dollars in a year.

I don't know if Cobain actually wanted mainstream recognition, money or what. Maybe for him it was fine to accept the compromises that Geffen offered, maybe his music was just "getting poppier". By the way it is sure that "Nevermind" made a lot of young pre-internet kids discover great music. I mean: the exposition to that album (assured by the persistent broadcasting of its videos by MTV) drove a good amount of early teens to look for "more of that harsh sound". Doing so they found their rock musical path (alas, for someone it ended in a dark ditch full of metal). Maybe "Nevermind" could be called an involuntary mainstream ear-opener. At least here in Italy it has been so for a lot of kids.
As a side note: I was 5 when Nevermind came out and I consider myself lucky to have had access to the internet at an early age, otherwise I wouldn't have found 90% of the music I listen now.

Side note 2:
The best Nirvana album is Bleach which is a great album indeed.

I think Nirvana were just in the right place at the right time. I was in high school when they got big. The people I knew were into Fugazi, the Jesus Lizard, punk, hardcore. A handful of people I knew listened to some Nirvana but no one thought they were anything special. I never got "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - it's a terrible song. But my friends and I thought its popularity was vaguely encouraging, like better music was going to be popular.

Maybe the general public wanted something, anything that sounded more authentic. Or louder or bettter or not so gay. I never thought popular grunge and alternative bands that followed sounded all that much like Nirvana. I don't know that the world changed a whole lot. So people listened to Pearl Jam instead of Van Halen and wore different silly clothes. Big deal.

If Nirvana had been on T&G? They would never have been popular. They'd probably be mostly forgotten by now. And popular music still would have gone "alternative."