Are there actually bands out there who say 'Math rock' when you ask them what kind of music they play?
I can't believe that to be true.

Do these "Math Rock" bands require, or at prefer, a state of mental vigilance from the listener and seek to make them conscious of the structure of the songs?

I would say yes.

Are primal, rhythmic "drone rock" approaches such as that of The Liars different from this?

Yes, in my experience.

What about The Ex? Do they partake of both these approaches or do they exist outside of them?

I think they are independent of any genre, except perhaps punk rock.

What about lyrics? Do narrative (Slint) and political content (Fugazi) mitigate the perceived "mathy" approach of such bands? Is the definitive and exemplary "Math Rock" band an instrumental one such as Breadwinner or Don Caballero?

Yes and yes in my opinion.

Is the music of Slint and Fugazi too "emotional" to be classed in this dubious and dubiously-named sub-genre?

In my judgement, yes.

Math Rock as a genre is not crap.

Most math rock bands probably are not very good. This is true of most genres.

Many bands have mathy aspects without being totally math ala Breadwinner. Mathy flourishes are often nice additions to a song, and sometimes not so nice. Depends.

Genres exist, but it seems that this is usually the result of a few loosely related or affiliated bands/aesthetics/individuals starting up something interesting which, mostly after the fact, gets recognized as having similarities. A name is affixed by people who need labels (media, fans) and then second and third generation responses occur. The bulk of the bands in a genre are not originators and most of them aren't interesting over the long haul (or the short, as it were).

Good math rock = NC
Bad math rock = Crap
Trying to address an entire genre in terms of crap or not crap = Bullshit

What he said! ^

I've spent a ridiculous amount of time half-assedly researching "Math-Rock" bands and what the term means to all sorts of people. I had at one point planned to write an amateur history of the genre-label but it seemed more and more a ridiculous enterprise as the possibility was neared.

All in all, however, I believe the ideas in "math-rock", represent the best about music and it's efforts to achieve new, unexplored themes while still remaining respectful of traditional 'rock' idioms. If we were really to get into it I could not stop talking about it, so I'll just say Not Crap and let you all chime in on how it has no 'feeling' or whatever.

If someone asked me what a math rock band sounded like, I would say The Oxes.

I would NOT say Shellac, or Fugazi, or Slint...

Anyway most of it is bullshit.. and the guy who said 4/4 is a straightjacket - so is avoiding it.

There are good bands and bad bands, good albums and bad albums. I love the good stuff. What Burns Never Returns (Don Cab), Hold Your Horse Is (Hella), Lynx, some Tera Melos stuff, and a few bands which don't spring to mind at the moment. I also enjoy some stuff which could be described as math rock but in my opinion is merely an influence on the genre or achieves similar results using a different aesthetic (or the obverse). Slint (godlike but closer to post rock in my mind), Ruins (very influential but closer in spirit to prog and no wave), Melvins (the insane song arrangements of the first two or three albums approach math rock), Shellac (influential but coming from a more visceral place), Captain Beefheart (obviously not math rock while just as obviously an influence). There are even a few 70s prog/fusion bands who obviously predated math rock as a qualifier but if they were formed in the 90s might be construed as math rock by some.

That's where the problem of the descriptor of math rock lies: it's too inclusive, too subjective, and kinda just dumb. It's very possible that the person who invented the phrase meant it in jest or even disparagingly. "Math rock... music created by musicians who are more concerned with the time signatures they're playing in than the quality of the resultant song."

That said, in many cases it's a lot easier to just say math rock than to describe the actual music.

i now realize i had absolutely no idea what math rock is.

i thought it was "just" music that was highly fixated on pushing metric limits, like don cab. that it was an affectionate self-effacing term for music motivated by aluminum beard protractor play.

seems to me to be several decimal places between say shellac's intentions/approach & don cab's, for instance. i'm understating this difference.

regarding odd meters & such: shellac sounds to me almost like they're playing some strange stripped down turkish music sometimes. that music & culture has a kinda organic sound & approach to real weird rhythms, & they seem to grow out of melodic/lyrical lines. whereas, the stuff i'd thought of as math rock normally sounds like it started with some drummer writing something cool down in his rhythm notebook. this notebook is his constant companion, & has graph paper instead of blank sheet music pages.

i'll enjoy listening to the latter too, but ultimately i want to be moved by music & not just admire it.

even though i guess i can get moved by the strangest stuff sometimes.


reckon on!

I lived in Milwaukee and attended concerts fairly regularly when this "math rock" trend was at its peak in popularity -- you know, four years before the very same boys went on to start dance-punk bands after flirting with garage rock -- and all I have to say is this:

What's three time crap divided by two shits?

Ekkssvvppllott wrote:What's three time crap divided by two shits?

i think these folks may be able to help you with your situation.