ironyengine wrote:

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:It needed to be done.

Explain.

For now, all is secret, but look back a few pages to when Kubby and I first met. It was love at first site.

kerble wrote:

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:

ironyengine wrote:
I am still kind of curious about why WZ ganked Kerble's avatar, but who am I to ask questions.

It needed to be done.

yeah. needed. Great debating skills, National. D'ja know I went, too?
Lincoln Douglas and Policy.

great debating.


you are a master debater.


Faiz

I've seen 9th grade novice LD'ers do a better job than most of these sods... Did you get your triple ruby on your NFL cert? Or were you in the Catholic organization?

oucheh wrote:The thread about Zappa was done right around page 3 or maybe 4. This "thread" has truly degenerated into one person repeating the same bullshit over and over

I totally agree with this, but it is a different point than the one you were originally making. Hell, I am a diehard Zappa fan and even I don't feel as strongly as WZ seems to. But I see no reason not to continue the debate, so long as it is a debate. If you had called for the thread to return to being a real debate I would've been 100% there.

I am still unclear on the need for avatar theft however. I thought I followed the drama through all the way, but I guess I missed something. Oh well. The avatar really looked much better on Faiz.

Look... Part of my curiosity is what people consider crap. I mean, if it's "carved on stone tablets" that Zappa is crap, shouldn't there be some examples? When I first read this, people were so absolute about how crappy Zappa is... He's not my favorite artist, but definately in my top 5.

My theory is that many people have heard really bad stuff that their hippy friends are into, so they could score an 1/8th... I'm sure there's some who have heard his modern compositions, and think that's slick bullshit. People say I am presumptuous to say this, but this has been my experience with people's knowledge of Zappa, amongst people who trash his music... They haven't really heard it.

Nonetheless, let the debate start... after 10 pages of finally (hopefully) agreeing that we can discuss this in terms of the merit of his art. I'll put a list together of Zappa tunes I think are particularly good, and curious people can obtain them however... FZ sold the rights to all his records to Rykodisc before he died, so you're not cheating the family trust by snaking the tunes... it's probably more important that you hear some of this, if you're not going to buy it anyway...

Anyway, I'm obviously going to have to show leadership here, and start reviewing works he's done... No one else is going to start, so I'll do another commentary on some material. Then at least capnreverb will have something to negate.

"They're just words. Words can't hurt you" - FZ on Crossfire.

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:.

Anyway, I'm obviously going to have to show leadership here, and start reviewing works he's done... No one else is going to start, so I'll do another commentary on some material.

oh boy! could you? Puhleeeeeeeeeese???


we clearly have not had enough.




Faiz

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:"Irony" is tonight's secret word.

Don't you think your talents would be better used on the goth/emo thread?

Fuck you and have a bad day, you fucktard.

It looks like "projecting" may be today's secret word. Please do keep it up! Your posts are comedy gold.

Wernehm, you sad, thin-skinned little man,

First and most important, I never misquoted you. I bolded some of your words. I didn't do so in bad faith, so that people reading my post would think you bolded them and that it would "prove" some "big lie". I bolded them to draw attention to certain parts of what you were saying. The words were entirely yours. I never added words, and I never subtracted words in bad faith. The words I did subtract were simply for the sake of brevity. I made a note that read, "(discussion of Big Swifty in detail)" where I took out your words specifically so that anyone reading would know I had left some of your words out, and that they could simply scroll up if they wanted to subject themselves to it.

I also never, as you imply, accused you of not discussing the music. My accusation is that you never discuss the music in the way that you insist everyone else discuss the music, i.e. using facts and objectivity and completely eschewing opinion and taste. When you describe Zappa, you do so in a way that is factually accurate. But when you say what makes Zappa great, you use your opinion. Personally, I'm not convinced it's even possible to evaluate and judge music without resorting to opinion. You insist it is possible, and you might be right, but you don't do it.

Back to the subject of misquotation, you repeatedly attribute the word "elitist" - in quotes - to me, as though that was something I had accused you of being. As a certain failed Fugazi member once said, "Never said this. Again, it's in quotes, like you had hallucinations of me posting this or something." I did a search, and the only time the word "elitist" shows up in any of my 450 posts is when I'm quoting you accusing me of accusing you of being elitist. What I did accuse you of (I don't recall if it was implicitly or explicitly) was hypocrisy, in that you criticize people quite harshly for writing off Zappa after only hearing a sample of his material, while you write off all "3 chord punk rock" having not heard all of it. Discuss this charge, if you like, but drop this "elitist" thing, because I never said it.

On the Sex Pistols: Jesus, drop it already. I hate the fucking Sex Pistols. How much do I hate them? So much, that if I were forced to choose between the Sex Pistols and Frank Zappa, I would probably choose Zappa. That's how much I dislike the Sex Pistols. They're much much closer to my least favorite band than my "favorite band".

This is funny, though:

Wernehm_Zackariaah, apropos of nothing, wrote:Look. All I said is that if the Sex Pistols are your favorite band, you will not like Zappa.

Yeah, that's all you said. Good one.

Anyway, since you like my DJ Club Mixes so much (whatever), enjoy this, and please feel free to point out where I'm misquoting you:

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:I think you have issues with this. You also seem to get very mad if someone doesn't agree with you.

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:Fuck you and have a bad day, you fucktard.

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:You shut the fuck up.

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:You are a piece of shit. Fuck you.

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:I wipe my ass on the brim of your hat.

What fun!

Oh, and tell me how many things you can find wrong with this:

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:I said you need to appreciate jazz to "get" Zappa. YOU inferred this as elitist.

And this one, for the ages:

Wernehm_Zackariaah, discussing Zappa, wrote:He did a whole lot of shitty material

When you wrote you didn't like the Sex Pistols, I noticed you were a "Peanuts" fan and liked the Talking Heads. Okay that explains that....

Moving on....

Zappa's foremost talent was as a producer and arranger first, a musician would be a distant second. Captain Beefheart was the true innovative genius. Nuff said.

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:Do you know how to debate?

Look, I went to the nationals in debate in high school.

Hi. How's it going? I'm pretty hungry, myself and loopier than usual on cold medicine.

Perhaps persuasion has been ignored. I doubt that alienating your audience was ever part of your Official Debate Team Manual (tm).

Third-aling-ing up after kibble [sic don't hurt me! See you tonight!], I also went to nationals for debate/politics in high school (1)(2), so dontcha get all up into bumblalia that I don't know jack, now.

(1) clutching at straws of legitimacy, myself? ha ha ha *sob*
(2) where a state attorney general and a senator hit on me, gross-like and vulgarly. shudder.

Wernehm_Zackariaah wrote:If you drop an argument, you agree. Silence is consent in the art of forensics.

Antagonism is not rhetoric and it is not the art of forensics. I do not like this interaction. No, no thank you, sir.

The people you are debating are your target audience for your rhetoric, not a crowd beyond your third wall. You know?

Don't alienate your audience. I am going to go and savagely devour some tacos, now.

anarchyinthebronx wrote:When you wrote you didn't like the Sex Pistols, I noticed you were a "Peanuts" fan and liked the Talking Heads. Okay that explains that....

It's true, if Talking Heads is your favorite band, you probably won't "get" the Sex Pistols.

(seriously, though: the C/NC polls read: Peanuts NC, 32 to 6, T. Heads NC 31 to 2, and Pistols NC 14 to 4. There's almost certainly some people liking all three...)