CGI

CRAP
Total votes: 25 (81%)
NOT CRAP
Total votes: 6 (19%)
Total votes: 31

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

41
tipcat wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:[...]your brain instinctively knows it doesn't look quite real. That's when you know they skimped on that shot in the CG budget.

Another, more troubling issue with the heavy use of CG in movies is that the effects tend to drive the entire look and even the plot of the film. This has become de rigeur in Hollywood nowadays and is a much more difficult issue to address because it's an aesthetic issue rather than a technical one. No slick new computer innovation or effects algorithm is going to suddenly imbue Hollywood producers like Jerry Bruckheimer and Michael Bay with good taste.


This is the sort of thing I was getting at when I referred to cinematic "norms." When CGI drives look and feel and even the plot, are we still watching a film? What the fuck are we watching, exactly? And using CGI to skimp on the shot calls into question its validity as a cinematic technique, because it is being used to avoid recourse to the camera. Boo.

Yes, tipcat, rest assured, you are still looking at a film.

FYI, "film" is that long, thin, translucent, windy, plasticy thing with the holes down each side that the projectionist threads into the projector before the lights go down in the theater.

Sorry, I was being a bit facetious there. As to your question from a page 2 regarding cameras in cinema: For purposes of this discussion, let's define a "motion picture camera" as a device for making sequential, 2D representations out of patterns of light onto a strip of movable film stock. Over the 80-some-odd year history of cinematography up to this point, thousands different devices have been designed and built to accomplish this task, but let's group them all into the general category of 'cameras'. So we have a device that renders patterns of light in 3 dimensions onto a 2-dimensional plane, in a linear sequence. Whether that light originates from a studio lamp or the Sun itself, and whether it gets reflected into the camera by an actor's face or an optical animation cel, or it originates from a digital printing apparatus or a laser, for it to become a "film", it must at some point be transferred to motion picture film stock by means of some form of camera.

Regardless of the special effects used in production, all of the imagery has to be printed to film at some point for showing in theaters. Back in the olden days (when I was a kid), special effects teams used to use a variety of objects like little plastic models, colored lights, backdrop paintings on glass, etc to provide the direct or reflected light which was all filmed separately and then composited together in a sophisticated optical printing machine (itself a type of "camera") to commit it to the final film. Nobody back then ever complained that "That background was painted on glass, so it's not a film! We're watching a painting!" Nobody ever made the case that Disney movies "aren't films" because they're entirely comprised of serial flat drawings shown in sequence in an optical printer instead of real-world, live-action elements. In industry parlance, the word "film" has come to generally mean a motion picture that hasn't been rendered entirely on video.

Special effects have been around since the making of the earliest movies. Ever see Georges Méliès' Le Voyage dans la lune (A Trip to the Moon)? That image of the Man in the Moon with a missile stuck in his eye was a drawn backdrop with a made-up actor standing behind of it. The movie industry has always had that goal of wowing audiences with crazy imagery, and the use of CG is just the newest technique in their repertoire.
Last edited by Colonel Panic_Archive on Wed May 07, 2008 3:49 pm, edited 12 times in total.

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

42
mattw wrote:I blame The Matrix for the current wave of CGI effects in action films, particularly.

Why not blame The Last Starfighter or Westworld?

I agree that Speed Racer looks like you're watching an Xbox game instead of a movie, but I think that aesthetic was intentional. I personaly would "blame" Sin City (which I thought was excellent) or Dick Tracy or even Tim Burton's Batman movies for the look of Speed Racer, if I were seeking to lay blame like that, which I ain't. I prefer to judge each film on its own merits, or lack thereof.

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

43
Jujyfruits wrote:CGI could be very good for some FX (like that Gollum thing you all say, I hated that movies anyway), but doing an entire animation movie with CGI is total fucking crap.

Ok, there are a few exceptions, but when you get to see a program of short animation films in a festival or something like that, the CGI shorts always look totally out of place and really crappy in comparison. Part of what of that special thing animation has is being able to see the work of the animator right there, animation is very personal and every animator it's different from each other. With CGI that is completely lost, and the hand of the animator is replaced by software and 3D guys, and there's nothing personal or unique about it.

So, it's ok for special FX, but it is definitively no good as an animation technique.

In traditional animation, a single animator doesn't hand-draw every frame in a fucking 90-minute feature. That would take a lifetime! Rather, the creator does a series of character sketches of the character in different poses, then oversees the process as hundreds of animators in an animation house (which is usually in Korea, for the past 15 years or so) do the actual drawing work of making the characters go through the motions of acting out the story.

The same basic process is used in CG animated features. Characters are drawn by a character designer, then rendered by 3D modelers using graphics software like Maya. The character designers then oversee the animation process (which is usually done in LA, CA). Except in CG features, character actors are used to actually mug the facial expressions of the animated characters and mime their movements. The actors' faces and bodies are 'tagged' with colored dots which are then mapped to vector points on the 3D model, to allow the animated character to use a real person's facial expressions and body movements.
Last edited by Colonel Panic_Archive on Wed May 07, 2008 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

45
Colonel Panic wrote:
I agree that Speed Racer looks like you're watching an Xbox game instead of a movie, but I think that aesthetic was intentional. I personaly would "blame" Sin City (which I thought was excellent) or Dick Tracy or even Tim Burton's Batman movies for the look of Speed Racer, if I were seeking to lay blame like that, which I ain't. I prefer to judge each film on its own merits, or lack thereof.


Because The Matrix used the whole "bullet time" technology and thus made a whole generation of filmmakers lazy when it came to using special effects in movies. It's incredibly ironic that the Wachowski brothers now come out w/ a p.o.s. like Speed Racer.

As someone else mentioned, John Woo did pretty much the same thing w/slo-mo and all of that, but it was tightly choreographed and not click-select-click'd with a damn computer.

It's basically why Episodes I-III of the new Star Wars look like shit and the old ones look awesome (or at least I think they do). They had to be creative. I still think you can be creative with dig. effects, but most people choose not to be.

I mean, shit, Alien and Aliens still look 10x better than half the shit out now.

You just mentioned (with the exception of Dick Tracy) two movies that used effects well. Both Tim Burton and RR wanted to recreate the look of the comic books/graphic novels, which they both did really well. The Wachowski brothers...I don't know what the hell they're trying to do....
Tiny Monk site and blog

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

46
Conchis wrote:Now THIS is what CGI can do when employed by a director with good taste and a sense of restraint.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TT491ctM8Kk

It's a youtube short behind the scenes look at the CGI work in Zodiac. My jaw dropped when I saw this. For those familiar with the movie, there are some signature Fincher shots where you marvel at his innovative use of CGI. Total Fincher wankery that's fun and clever and cool and whatever...What most don't realize is that these shots are just scratching the surface and that Fincher has incorporated CGI in major ways into almost every nightime scene in the movie, and he's done it fucking seamlessly. Just astounding work.

Still voted CRAP. Fincher and a few others are exceptions that prove the rule that CGI as employed by Hollywood today SUCKS!!!!!!!


*clap clap clap*

I loved Zodiac, but I loved it even more when I got that new 2-disc edition. I would've never guessed that the entire taxi scene was CGI. And the neighborhood where the taxi driver gets it, too.
Tiny Monk site and blog

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

47
scntfc wrote:now can we get back to people being funny, please? that's why i read this shit. i await your witty reply!


Tipcat is not your dancing monkey.

While it's true that people can respond with "Crap!", they can also respond with questions such as "Wtf? How do we evaluate CGI, anyhow?" You don't have to be a dick about it.

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

48
mattw wrote:I loved Zodiac, but I loved it even more when I got that new 2-disc edition. I would've never guessed that the entire taxi scene was CGI. And the neighborhood where the taxi driver gets it, too.


That's what cracks me up about the CGI critics who choose to bash the tool rather than the idiot tool users. I'll guaran-damn-tee you that anyone who's said "fuck CGI" has seen a movie that they really dug that had CGI in it that they didn't even notice because it was done well.

I mean, ok, i love Batman Begins in part because they insisted on using as little CGI as possible to up the realism factor of the movie, but if you think those were real bats swarming Arkham Asylum, you're high.
http://www.ifihadahifi.net
http://www.superstarcastic.com

Marsupialized wrote:Thank you so much for the pounding, it came in handy.

Overused Cinema Technique: CGI

49
mattw wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
I agree that Speed Racer looks like you're watching an Xbox game instead of a movie, but I think that aesthetic was intentional. I personaly would "blame" Sin City (which I thought was excellent) or Dick Tracy or even Tim Burton's Batman movies for the look of Speed Racer, if I were seeking to lay blame like that, which I ain't. I prefer to judge each film on its own merits, or lack thereof.


Because The Matrix used the whole "bullet time" technology and thus made a whole generation of filmmakers lazy when it came to using special effects in movies. It's incredibly ironic that the Wachowski brothers now come out w/ a p.o.s. like Speed Racer.

Why do you assume CG work is "lazier" than other types of film work, say for instance, film editing?
Is "time-efficiency" synonymous with laziness in your mind? I don't see you arguing against the use of "video assist" technology in the production and post-production of movies for instance, since it reduces the number of takes a team must shoot in order to obtain useful shots.

Besides, all the "bullet-time" effects in The Matrix were not done using 3D CG.

You're using a common misconception to argue a luddite position.

The Matrix and Speed Racer are two vastly different films with vastly different aesthetics.
Last edited by Colonel Panic_Archive on Wed May 07, 2008 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests