placeholder wrote:
One of the things that irritates me most about Christianity, aside from its requirement that you hold a laughable, primitive belief in the supernatural (not to mention a belief in Jesus Christ, a person who never existed), is the instinct of its followers to constantly try to proselytize to the uninterested (or rational, if you will). It is a tiresome practice.

A question was asked, which I took to be not rhetorical, and I responded. I was responding not from my little worldview, but with the words of Christ. I am not responding with the belief that I know all the answers just because I see what I can from my perspective. Does ridiculing someone else make your personal perspective more valid?

Although I don't agree with others' beliefs, I certainly do not belittle them! To me, that is irrational. What do you gain?

derail wrote:
and yes...."free will" IS a gift......did you even read my post?

You strike me as someone who would rather not let people choose to accept God, but one who would make accepting God meaningless by requiring it. (i guess it's interpretive differences....)

And yes....I just attacked you personally (in order to call you out for an explanation).

I read your entire first post. Are you reading mine? There is a huge difference between a gift and a command... you can choose to accept a gift or to reject it.

To get personal, it is absolutely critical that my acceptance of Christ is a choice made by me that has nothing to do with your interpretation of the Bible or the church's. Love is incomplete if it is not reciprocal and if it is tied to conditions.

You are trying to place someone else's intolerance on me, you are misguided.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:
WILL EVERYBODY PLEASE STOP POSTING TO THIS THREAD? PLEASE.

If that's the consensus, agreed! I like this board and read it without any desire to post. Then this whole topic set off alarms, beginning with the oversimplification of racism and regions, to the additional intolerance of some in regards to Christ. I couldn't stand it and am struck by how some people claim tolerance of one kind, then exercise baseless intolerance of another. Christians and non-christians alike.

i think this thread should stop, and drift off into the obscurity of the past.

i also think there should be a new thread started up specifically to have this conversation of religion, or specifically to *discuss* Christianity (as opposed to the "Christ Worship" thread which seems so clearly about bashing, rather than thoughtful discussion) or to discuss racism even. there's probably already good threads to pick up the conversation.

i'm just really bothered by where this thread has gone, and though there has been a (i think) very small amount of thoughtful and considerate discourse that had *anything* to do with my intention in starting the thread, there's been mostly just really shitty name-calling type bickering, and i'm really bothered to be a part of it, and especially for it to have taken over a thread i hoped would get people talking about real, personal, experiential information about institutionalized and widespread racism, and how it might relate to region. for it to have turned into this is really frustrating, and i'd really like it if this thread would go away.

i think the discussion about religion is doomed, as there don't seem to be any people who are undecided on it... there's a small number of people who see religion as a positive thing, through their own experience, and there's a few people who seem to be very rational and thoughtful (though maybe still very disdainful) and then a handful of people who just wanna throw rocks and basically shout "fuck you!".

i don't see the discussion going anywhere, but i am definitely not opposed to it continuing. i just don't wanna read it anymore. i've had way more than enough. and like i say, it bums me out that this thread turned into that, when it could have been so much more.

chauncey wrote:When I talk of soul, I don't mean the mind and the mechanics of the brain. I mean the whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. The bits that are more than just kill or be killed, continuation of the species type stuff. To boil it down, the ability to behave out of love for another that has nothing to do with any self-preservation instinct, it's the sacrifice of one's own self for another. What is behind that?

Those are thoughts. They are the things that run through your mind. Which is made of the activity in your brain. You say the whole is greater than the sum of its parts; I disagree. I say the whole is the sum of its parts.

Where did this sense of right and wrong come from for you?

I figured it out over time, just like everyone.

If its all just gradual change, then your concept of morality is gradually changing until the day you perish, right?

Yes, and I pity anyone who couldn't have his heart opened by experience and knowledge as he lives and grows.

I was acquired by God, not the other way around. That is why I am still here and taking joy in each day that I have breath in my lungs until my physical frame collapses or is run over by a truck. I am not afraid of that, because death and the after is not an unknown for me.

Death is by definition unknown to anyone still alive. I am perfectly happy with that, and I suspect that the important part of my existence is the part I control while I am alive. Actually, I suspect there is nothing more, but as I've said, I don't know. I'd say it's about a million to one against there being anything else, but I don't "know."

With that on my mind, I take every minute here on earth as an important one. I don't have thoughts of eternity to comfort me, and I believe they would be illusory if I did. I must get on with it, do things and be good while I can.

Those who would live their lives in preparation for eternity are creating a bizarre double-standard: The earthly existence isn't important enough to enjoy for its own sake (these are worldly things), yet one's behavior here -- even a mistake -- is enough to damn one to Hell for all eternity.

This is a sick theology.

Christianity discussion, migrated here.