A lot of folks don't know how to mix drums in a mix.

Just saying...

gideon wrote:A lot of folks don't know how to mix drums in a mix.

Just saying...

A lot of would-be drummers don't know how their instruments should sit in a commercial product. Every now and then a truly great drummer with a great sense of what is required comes along.

greg wrote:Can you name an album where super loud cymbals sounded good?

Out To Lunch.

I was just listening to this and remembered this thread. Cymbals are pretty damn loud and I think it's a fantastic sounding record. Of course string bass + drums + vibes + trumpet + winds is something of a whole different ball game than most of what is discussed on this board.

I think that Man or Astroman...? records have loud cymbals. I believe that's because of how brian plays, from the videos I watched, it seems like he's hitting the drums really hard.
Some silkworm records have loud hi hats. I don't find it irritating, I dunno if that's considered "loud", but I think they're loud. Anyhow, these records sound good.

projectMalamute wrote:

greg wrote:Can you name an album where super loud cymbals sounded good?

Out To Lunch.

I was just listening to this and remembered this thread. Cymbals are pretty damn loud and I think it's a fantastic sounding record. Of course string bass + drums + vibes + trumpet + winds is something of a whole different ball game than most of what is discussed on this board.

That's pretty fucking awesome sounding record. Yeah and the reason the cymbals sound good there played loud is because its Tony Williams playing those drums! He is a master! In fact I think the true test of good drummer is one that doesn't play his cymbals all the time. Bad drummers rely on too many cymbals as a crutch to fill up space. A cymbal is like any other instrument, most people wouldn't play 16ths on a snare drum the whole song. Cymbals are basically white noise generators and they fill up ambient space and people are so used to hearing them that something seems wrong if there aren't alot of cymbals. Good engineers realize this and do everything they possibly can to reduce the amount of cymbals in the mix because its really an annoyance. Plus cymbals bleed into all your drum tracks and when eq-ing the snare it can cause the things to sound out of phase or just plain gnarly. IMO drummers that play too many cymbals are akin to guitar players that use too much distortion, they are just covered up the fact that their technique is probably lacking.

ps... A great Chicago drummer who is really choosy about his cymbal placement is Nate Kinsella. He treats playing cymbals like its supposed to be treated I think.

I think super loud cymbals sound unbalanced in a mix and cause listener fatigue. Too much of a good thing, you know?

Nate Kinsella knows. Dude is a wizard. Look at how Glenn Kotche uses his cymbals on anything he plays on. Another smart, smart drummer.

This reminds me of why I subconsciously love Hot Snakes' Suicide Invoice--dude hardly ever rides on the cymbals. True pound-you-in-the-face drumming. When I think about most of the drumming I really enjoy, it's usually cymbal-lite. But not in a mix sense I suppose, more in a drummer's choice, as has been iterated here.Or could this be a subtle case of misogyny and sexism? If we reasonably say that drums are masculine, and cymbals are feminine (cylindrical vs round with a hole in the middle), and that then follows with the scenario that most recording engineers are male, then suppressing cymbals would be another way to bring a good woman down.Whether that's the intention or not, only Freud can say. That's a little out there, but could be on to something...

Listen to the first couple of Police LPs.