Marsupialized wrote:
It's not even illegal to talk to a child about fucking them, you can do it for hours and hours.

Befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, in order to lower the child's inhibitions in preparation for sexual abuse,
is called 'grooming' and is totally illegal in most of the western world, rightly so.

In the United States, 18 U.S.C. § 2425 makes it an offense to transmit information about a person below the age of 18 for the purpose of committing a sexual offense. Some states have additional statutes covering seducing a child online, such as the Florida law that makes "Use of a Computer to Seduce a Child" a felony

Can people stop calling it a thought crime please? Thinking sick thoughts is one thing, trying to seduce children on the internet is another. Grooming is not thinking about it, it is the activity of preparation.

Johnny C wrote:
Fuck this series straight to hell. Could we please spend our time, energy and money on more legitimate pursuits of justice?

In your mind, what is a "more legitimate pursuit of justice" than protecting children from sexual predators?

Dr. Venkman wrote:In your mind, what is a "more legitimate pursuit of justice" than protecting children from sexual predators?

There are certainly better ways of doing what you asked than the way Dateline is handling it.

Rooting out and arresting sexual predators who have actually committed crimes, for one? Funding outreach programs for the victims of sexual abuse so that they can come forward and bring their tormentors to justice? Look, I came up with those off the top of my head, but nobody's handing me a hundred thousand dollars.

(And hey, thanks for asking a loaded question - I appreciate those!)

Think about this for a second. Ten percent of children who are sexually abused are abused by strangers. The other ninety percent are molested by friends, neighbours, relatives and the like. None of these people met their victims in chat rooms.

So this show does an excellent job of targeting those ten percent and does an almost laughably poor job of at all targeting the symptoms of pedophilia that manifest themselves as sexual abuse. Never mind that it led one man to suicide, which is historically a pretty shitty thing to happen to a person.

I feel like I'd be a lot more comfortable with this if it happened off-camera and there weren't any vigilantes involved, but folks like Perverted Justice are basically douchebags and I find it astounding that they can't figure out a better use of their time - like, say, volunteering at a sexual education centre or something like that.

Dr. Venkman wrote:

Johnny C wrote:
Fuck this series straight to hell. Could we please spend our time, energy and money on more legitimate pursuits of justice?

In your mind, what is a "more legitimate pursuit of justice" than protecting children from sexual predators?

While it's good that child abuse and molestation isn't taken lightly by law enforcement, or the justice system, having a show about it, and tricking these guys into an encounter is fucking vile.

This isn't the right way to go about it. Filming it, having a vigilante group involved, and on top it, airing it on national tv is just ludicrous.

Johnny C wrote:

Dr. Venkman wrote:In your mind, what is a "more legitimate pursuit of justice" than protecting children from sexual predators?

There are certainly better ways of doing what you asked than the way Dateline is handling it.

Rooting out and arresting sexual predators who have actually committed crimes, for one? Funding outreach programs for the victims of sexual abuse so that they can come forward and bring their tormentors to justice? Look, I came up with those off the top of my head, but nobody's handing me a hundred thousand dollars.

So you would wait until the children are raped by these pieces of shit first. OK.
All your solutions take place after the children are victimized. Do you honestly think this is the first time these guys have met someone and followed it up? They show up at a house with the intent of raping a kid. They actually have the balls to show up.

JohnnyC wrote:(And hey, thanks for asking a loaded question - I appreciate those!)

You wrote that question. I was genuinely curious.

Johnny C wrote:Think about this for a second. Ten percent of children who are sexually abused are abused by strangers. The other ninety percent are molested by friends, neighbours, relatives and the like. None of these people met their victims in chat rooms.

Yeah, screw those ten percent of kids that get molested via the internet. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Johnny C wrote:So this show does an excellent job of targeting those ten percent and does an almost laughably poor job of at all targeting the symptoms of pedophilia that manifest themselves as sexual abuse.

In one breath, you say that it shouldn't be on television. Yet, in the next, you claim this T.V. show should be responsible for policing the "other 90%" of unrepresented cases. You are insane.

"Symptoms of pedophilia"? How about venturing to a 10-year olds house to rape them. Would you consider that a "symptom" of the "disease" you all seem so intent on protecting?

Johnny C wrote:Never mind that it led one man to suicide, which is historically a pretty shitty thing to happen to a person.

If they would all off themselves, that would be tremendous. I would like to extend him my personal thanks.

Johnny C wrote:I feel like I'd be a lot more comfortable with this if it happened off-camera and there weren't any vigilantes involved,

Oh good. As long as you're comfortable...

We wouldn't want to embarrass the poor child rapists or anything.

Johnny C wrote:but folks like Perverted Justice are basically douchebags and I find it astounding that they can't figure out a better use of their time - like, say, volunteering at a sexual education centre or something like that.

Yes, volunteering at a sex education center would be much more effective. We should coddle and try to understand these people. Fuck that.

Skronk wrote:While it's good that child abuse and molestation isn't taken lightly by law enforcement, or the justice system, having a show about it, and tricking these guys into an encounter is fucking vile.

No. What's "fucking vile" is the abuse and exploitation of innocent kids by child rapists. You've got it so fucking twisted that I wouldn't know where to begin with you. Removing theses people from the streets is a GOOD thing. Preventing children from being sexually abused is GOOD.

Put 'em on T.V., let them kill themselves (thank you), burn 'em at the fucking stake, whatever. I don't think the show goes far enough.

Dr. Venkman wrote:So you would wait until the children are raped by these pieces of shit first. OK.
All your solutions take place after the children are victimized. Do you honestly think this is the first time these guys have met someone and followed it up? They show up at a house with the intent of raping a kid. They actually have the balls to show up.

How many of them have prior criminal convictions? How many of them had actually met a kid on a chatroom on the Internet before? I seriously wonder.

And honestly, I'd rather the children weren't raped in the first place. I'd just like to clear that up, because I feel like you might be getting the wrong impression. Before going any further I'll state the obvious by saying that child molestation is basically the worst thing.

Dr. Venkman wrote:You wrote that question. I was genuinely curious.

I wrote

Fuck this series straight to hell. Could we please spend our time, energy and money on more legitimate pursuits of justice?

and nothing more. The phrase "protecting children from sexual predators" creates a foregone conclusion about the accomplishments of this television program, a conclusion that I personally haven't reached, and therefore I'll play the "you're putting words in my mouth" card here. I'm all for protecting kids from sexual predators, but just not this way, which really might not be protecting them at all.

Dr. Venkman wrote:Yeah, screw those ten percent of kids that get molested via the internet. What the fuck is wrong with you?

I know, fuck me for suggesting that the root of this problem is maybe not in some creepy dude's studio apartment, right? Those ten percent of kids that get molested via the Internet would find their ranks greatly reduced if they were educated to understand the warning signs of sexual predation and were instructed to, say, avoid setting up one-on-one meetings with online strangers that they find in chat rooms. A show that teaches parents how to talk to their kids about this, that would be useful and fucking awesome. This show isn't it. It's trash. It's Roman coliseum bullshit.

Dr. Venkman wrote:In one breath, you say that it shouldn't be on television. Yet, in the next, you claim this T.V. show should be responsible for policing the "other 90%" of unrepresented cases. You are insane.

Thanks! I am glad to know that there is one sane viewpoint and everything else is just ludicrous. I'd been labouring under the impression that I could have my own opinion on things for so long that it never even occurred to me.

I didn't say To Catch A Predator should be responsible for policing those other 90% of cases because that's not the show's premise. I think it should be off the air and the discourse on the subject should be meaningful and directed towards producing results and minimizing the risk that children are exposed to, instead of it being sensationalized bullshit that attacks a few dudes for ratings. Once again, though, fuck me for thinking that, right? What an asshole I am.

Dr. Venkman wrote:"Symptoms of pedophilia"? How about venturing to a 10-year olds house to rape them. Would you consider that a "symptom" of the "disease" you all seem so intent on protecting?

I guess yeah I would? It's a tremendously disgusting symptom and I am by no means defending it or protecting pedophiles simply because they are pedophiles. These stings are meant to take people and send them away to prison where they will not understand why what they did was wrong (or, considering that it's a sting, probably what they did wrong - see my post on the last page with the string of hypotheticals to maybe catch a glimpse of that). Punishment over rehabilitation. Awesome use of tax dollars, to be practical about it.

Dr. Venkman wrote:Oh good. As long as you're comfortable...

We wouldn't want to embarrass the poor child rapists or anything.

Yeah, this isn't a thread about having an opinion on a topic. You're right.

Dr. Venkman wrote:Yes, volunteering at a sex education center would be much more effective.

So volunteering for something that actively campaigns to, among other things, help actual victims of real violent crime cope with what has happened to them is less useful than a vigilante group which gets people arrested for committing a hypothetical crime?

It's the easy way out to want blood. Why not just title the show "Lynch Mob" and be done with it?

Dr. Venkman wrote:

Skronk wrote:While it's good that child abuse and molestation isn't taken lightly by law enforcement, or the justice system, having a show about it, and tricking these guys into an encounter is fucking vile.

No. What's "fucking vile" is the abuse and exploitation of innocent kids by child rapists.

Then what? Of course it's vile. No one's arguing against that point, but do we lose all sense of humanity dealing with these people?

Dr. Venkman wrote:You've got it so fucking twisted that I wouldn't know where to begin with you. Removing theses people from the streets is a GOOD thing. Preventing children from being sexually abused is GOOD.

Go fuck yourself. I've got it twisted? Who's the ignorant shit who'd like nothing more than to kill these criminals?

Remove them, toss their ass in jail, whatever. My point is don't fucking air this sick excuse for justice. You're so myopic and sensationalist you equate criticism of how we treat these retards with letting them get off easy.

Dr. Venkman wrote:Put 'em on T.V., let them kill themselves (thank you), burn 'em at the fucking stake, whatever. I don't think the show goes far enough.

Thanks for proving my point.

Johnny C wrote:

Dr. Venkman wrote:So you would wait until the children are raped by these pieces of shit first. OK.
All your solutions take place after the children are victimized. Do you honestly think this is the first time these guys have met someone and followed it up? They show up at a house with the intent of raping a kid. They actually have the balls to show up.

How many of them have prior criminal convictions? How many of them had actually met a kid on a chatroom on the Internet before? I seriously wonder.

Me too. I'm betting it's somewhere around 100%.

Johnny C wrote:And honestly, I'd rather the children weren't raped in the first place. I'd just like to clear that up, because I feel like you might be getting the wrong impression. Before going any further I'll state the obvious by saying that child molestation is basically the worst thing.

My hero.

Dr. Venkman wrote:Yeah, screw those ten percent of kids that get molested via the internet. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Johnny C wrote:I know, fuck me for suggesting that the root of this problem is maybe not in some creepy dude's studio apartment, right? Those ten percent of kids that get molested via the Internet would find their ranks greatly reduced if they were educated to understand the warning signs of sexual predation and were instructed to, say, avoid setting up one-on-one meetings with online strangers that they find in chat rooms. A show that teaches parents how to talk to their kids about this, that would be useful and fucking awesome. This show isn't it. It's trash. It's Roman coliseum bullshit.

You're so eager to blame the kid, parents or society and defend the child rapists. Fucking disturbing, man.

Johnny C wrote:These stings are meant to take people and send them away to prison where they will not understand why what they did was wrong (or, considering that it's a sting, probably what they did wrong - see my post on the last page with the string of hypotheticals to maybe catch a glimpse of that).

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny....

They understand full well. Be serious.

Johnny C wrote:Punishment over rehabilitation. Awesome use of tax dollars, to be practical about it.

You cannot rehabilitate a pedophile. It can't be done. You want to wait until after a kid(s) is molested to arrest a pedophile, send him to a mental hospital, and rehabilitate him. Dude. You live in a fucking fantasyland.

Johnnny C wrote:So volunteering for something that actively campaigns to, among other things, help actual victims of real violent crime cope with what has happened to them is less useful than a vigilante group which gets people arrested for committing a hypothetical crime?

It's not a hypothetical crime. It's real. Is attempted murder a hypothetical crime because the bullet hit the wall instead of it's intended target?

Johnny C wrote:Why not just title the show "Lynch Mob" and be done with it?

I like the way you think.

It's not the fault of the parents, the kids or society if a dude screeches up to a school in a van at 3:30 and whisks away a kid, and it's the same way with the Internet, so please don't put words in my mouth. Blame for that sits squarely at the feet of the pedophile. Unfortunately, short of locking every single pedophile ever away there is no way to completely and one hundred percent stop either of those things from happening, and that is quite literally impossible. As a society it is a lamentable fact that the best thing we can do is focus on prevention.

There are clinical treatments that can help rehabilitate pedophiles. Admittedly, there are none for rapists.

And it's a hypothetical crime. What's hypothetical about attempted murder? The only one I can think of is "if the murder had gone right, there would have been a dead victim." The hypothetical for this scenario is "if there had been a kid there then the kid would have been molested" which conveniently glosses over the other hypothetical of "if there was no Perverted Justice then the pedophile wouldn't be there either."

Johnny C wrote:The hypothetical for this scenario is "if there had been a kid there then the kid would have been molested" which conveniently glosses over the other hypothetical of "if there was no Perverted Justice then the pedophile wouldn't be there either."

No, he wouldn't be there. He'd be at some other kid's house--fucking them.

a wise man once wrote:The guys who get busted on TCaP--fuck them. Who gives a shit. They were a willing party to the process, and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. Extenuating circumstances contribute to just about any criminal makeup, but when it comes to rapists and/or pedophiles, I'd just as soon they all killed themselves.