Johnny C wrote:And it's a hypothetical crime. What's hypothetical about attempted murder? The only one I can think of is "if the murder had gone right, there would have been a dead victim." The hypothetical for this scenario is "if there had been a kid there then the kid would have been molested"

Soliciting a minor for sex is a crime in and of itself, even if it doesn't result in actual fiddling. And there are stings for lesser crimes than child molestation.

Some of these dudes show up with booze, porn and jimmy-hats, thinking there's some sweet little virginal thing inside, which fully demonstrates intent. Some guy pulls up in front of your place with an arsenal of guns in his trunk intending to kill you, but gets caught before he does kill you, is that still not a criminal act?

I sort of agree with all the arguments that this shouldn't be trotted out as entertainment and that the civvy vigilantes should maybe not be involved, but at the end of the day I don't really give that much of a fuck. Sayin'.

Dr. Venkman wrote:No, he wouldn't be there. He'd be at some other kid's house--fucking them.

...or at his house, not fucking them? Is that at all a possibility? Just like if some dude pulled up to my house all ready to commit the murder act upon me, there is a strong possibility that he'd have (at least in his mind) a reason to besides "likes killing," which kind of renders murder analogies moot?

At most the analogy you can make is that both of these crimes rely on set conditions before any criminal act can take place. An adult has to find a kid first before any sexual abuse can happen and a murderer has to have a victim and a motive. Without either of these things, there's no crime.

As I said,

Johnny C wrote:I feel like I'd be a lot more comfortable with this if it happened off-camera and there weren't any vigilantes involved.

A huge chunk of my arguments in this thread are focused on To Catch A Predator. Police stings, while they largely attack the symptom of a problem rather than the root, can be helpful in catching criminals, and even though I remain unconvinced that catching people who represent ten percent of child sexual abuse in stings is a really effective method of dealing with the problem I have to admit that at the very least it is a method of dealing with the problem. Pardon me, however, for thinking that there are much better ways for the police to go about preventing these crimes.

I don't want to take the time to quote everyone that I'd argue against.

As far as this not being sensational TV. You're right, I watch it for the shock "and awe." But I also think it serves a purpose as a deterrent. The people you see on the shows seem like just the sort of people that would be watching ABC at 8pm on a Wednesday. "Dateline isn't "handling it," they're cashing in by publicizing the work that Perverted Justice does. It seems like a mutually beneficial relationship in that ABC get's their story and a grass roots, non-profit organization gets the word out. They do more work than just thee stuff you see on Dateline. I think they do good work. They're not creating a market for these kinds of criminals, it's already there.

The Code is Almighty wrote:They're not creating a market for these kinds of criminals, it's already there.

Not criminals, but the type of entertainment the networks feed to people. Oneupmanship is the norm when it comes to reality tv. First it's cops, then it moves onto sensational courtroom drama, then bear-it-all reality shows, now this. Where does this shit end?

That someone would watch these types of shows as amusing, just to get off on seeing these guys suffer, is pathetic.

Skronk wrote:
Not criminals, but the type of entertainment the networks feed to people. Oneupmanship is the norm when it comes to reality tv. First it's cops, then it moves onto sensational courtroom drama, then bear-it-all reality shows, now this. Where does this shit end?

There's a thread about the show.

This poll isn't about the show, it's about the fact that these stings are occurring. These stings started before the police became involved. They'd originally collect evidence and pass it along to the police. When TV got involved, it motivated the police to be more proactive, switch on, and participate. I don't see anything wrong with that. Using the media has always been a great motivator, for both good and bad, and I don't think it's being used in a terrible way here. I think the Cops prostitution stings are terrible. They're sticking a chick on the road where one usually isn't and tempting people with something that regularly wouldn't be there; generally speaking, there isn't really a victim. This is different. There are literally 1,000's of these people. There's significantly more because the internet makes it so easy. These might have remained random (legal) thoughts in people's heads 15 years ago, it is now a click away. You no longer have to find a rest stop off the highway to commit taboo sex acts, and it just so happens that this particular taboo sex act is illegal and seriously injures participants who are still rather impressionable. I think it's humorous that you talk about how sensational this is, but can't seem to comprehend that it's more than a TV show. This shit is occurring. This isn't an island where they've stuck 15 handsome, stupid people and then record their shenanigans. You might not like the format in which it's being conveyed, but this is one of those rare occasions where the network is conveying news that's relevant.

Skronk wrote: That someone would watch these types of shows as amusing, just to get off on seeing these guys suffer, is pathetic.

Yeah, I guess I'm a pathetic dick. Hey, I gotta be me. It's better than Rock Of Love, and Jeopardy is only on for 30 minutes. Silly as it sounds, it's sort of redeeming to see people that are so fucked up that it makes me feel fine. At least I'm not hitting on 14 year olds on the internet.


Funny story, when I was 15 and we got AOL (I still have the account), this is from my 15 year old profile:

Hobbies & Interests shellac,big'n,lustreking,bi g black,rapeman, june of 44, jesus lizard,rodan,

Favorite Gadgets scratch acid,portishead,radiohead,a rchers of loaf,leonard cohen,tori amos,tom waits (music)


For some reason, I couldn't get Archers of Loaf and Big Black to format correctly. So, it said "Bi g Black." I used to get messages all the time from weird old men asking me all kinds of crazy shit. I used to joke about it with my buddies, but they didn't get the same stuff. It took me about six months to figure out. The 'Rapeman" probably didn't help none.

None of us ever fucked by the way.

Johnny C wrote:Utter bullshit through and through. There is so much wrong with this scenario that the only way to support it is by taking enormous and gross leaps into the murky, deep waters of fallacious thinking. Take five minutes to try and rationalize it without thinking in black and white terms of "pedophiles are inhuman monsters." Keep in mind that once they are arrested they are arrested for meeting a hypothetical child at the hypothetical child's hypothetical house for hypothetical sex. Can it make sense, or are you foaming irrationally at the mouth?

And hey, which do you suppose is more common, the garden-variety paedo that they catch on this series or the family member who tells his victim never to talk? But as long as we're catching the ones out in the wild, our kids are safe, right? That certainly won't be improved by educating our children better about the safe use of the Internet.

Fuck this series straight to hell. Could we please spend our time, energy and money on more legitimate pursuits of justice?

i can't believe it took three pages for someone to make this post. good post.

one time they busted this kid (he was in his early 20s) who had cp, had to use crutches to be able to walk and was obviously lonely and depressed out of his mind. he was clearly just looking for someone to give him attention, he couldn't give a fuck about the girl's age. after they had arrested him they were like "ooh i felt a little sorry for him actually" followed up by "but folks we should never forget that he's a PEDOPHILE".

c,w:0

Dr. Venkman wrote:You cannot rehabilitate a pedophile. It can't be done. You want to wait until after a kid(s) is molested to arrest a pedophile, send him to a mental hospital, and rehabilitate him. Dude. You live in a fucking fantasyland.

there's nothing immoral about being a pedophile. having sex with children, however, often has terrible consequences and is immoral in almost all cases. i don't know how you define "rehabilitate" here, but if you think it is impossible to make pedophiles realise that acting out on their sexual preference has very damaging consequences, you are obviously wrong wrong wrong. most pedophiles don't actually act out on their sexual preference you know, because they are perfectly capable of telling right from wrong.

The Code is Almighty wrote:

Skronk wrote:
Not criminals, but the type of entertainment the networks feed to people. Oneupmanship is the norm when it comes to reality tv. First it's cops, then it moves onto sensational courtroom drama, then bear-it-all reality shows, now this. Where does this shit end?

There's a thread about the show.

This poll isn't about the show, it's about the fact that these stings are occurring. These stings started before the police became involved. They'd originally collect evidence and pass it along to the police. When TV got involved, it motivated the police to be more proactive, switch on, and participate. I don't see anything wrong with that. Using the media has always been a great motivator, for both good and bad, and I don't think it's being used in a terrible way here. I think the Cops prostitution stings are terrible. They're sticking a chick on the road where one usually isn't and tempting people with something that regularly wouldn't be there; generally speaking, there isn't really a victim. This is different. There are literally 1,000's of these people. There's significantly more because the internet makes it so easy. These might have remained random (legal) thoughts in people's heads 15 years ago, it is now a click away. You no longer have to find a rest stop off the highway to commit taboo sex acts, and it just so happens that this particular taboo sex act is illegal and seriously injures participants who are still rather impressionable...

The Code is Almighty wrote: ...I think it's humorous that you talk about how sensational this is, but can't seem to comprehend that it's more than a TV show. This shit is occurring. This isn't an island where they've stuck 15 handsome, stupid people and then record their shenanigans. You might not like the format in which it's being conveyed, but this is one of those rare occasions where the network is conveying news that's relevant.

This argument, and my anger around shit like this is exactly because it's more than just a show, which the viewers either don''t fathom, or revel in. Because propositioning some kid, and acting like a vile piece of shit, it's alright to broadcast this fucking garbage when lives are seriously effected by this?

That's where we drawn the line between the two of us. Neither of us think it's alright for these guys to act the way they do, but where do our actions come into? Between arrogant, and flippant attitudes of "let's burn them to death", or something as equally stupid as "I don't care, but the show's alright", where do we get, as the public, the right to otherwise convict these guys before they've seen the inside of a court room?

We project every insecurity on to these guys, and proclaim ourselves better or normal, but then we feel glee, or smirk when we see the cops pull their weapons, and these guys sob. Shit like this sickens me, it's degrading to actually watch this fucking circus, and it all happens under the guises of "we're doing it for our children".

These guys are fucked up, and what they do is reprehensible, but nothing they've done, or how they act gives us a right to degrade them further. It's not justifiable. Every man hour spent fooling these guys into thinking they're going to get a kid, another hour is pumped out and hosted by Chris Hanson.

muzorewi's daughter wrote:
one time they busted this kid (he was in his early 20s) who had cp, had to use crutches to be able to walk and was obviously lonely and depressed out of his mind. he was clearly just looking for someone to give him attention, he couldn't give a fuck about the girl's age. after they had arrested him they were like "ooh i felt a little sorry for him actually" followed up by "but folks we should never forget that he's a PEDOPHILE".

I agree. Handicapped people should be able to fuck little children.

Oh hey here's an Esquire article on that suicide which happened when a dude declined to go meet them so basically he got his rocks off on some text but he wouldn't go and do anything criminal like say acting on his impulses so they showed up to his house with a fucking SWAT team.

The last page sends actual chills up my spine.

So yeah hey he blew his face off but I guess he was a pedophile maybe sort of kind of so ALL FUCKIN' RIGHT