steve wrote:If someone is actually a sexual predator, then catch him in his act of predation, don't create such an act ready-made and arrest whoever walks into it. It accomplishes nothing but punishment, and since I am not a vindictive man, I derive no pleasure from the pure punishing of others. I also think less of people who do.

How is this not catching them in the act? How is this not stopping actual crime. The intent is fully there. Have you read any of the chats on the watchdog sites? It doesn't sound like a trap to me. It sounds like perverts trying to talk up young teens. I get the whole hard line "we can't let the government encroach on our rights" thing, but isn't this a situation where you pause and say "well..I guess in this instance there's some justification?"

You also make it sound like no one should go to jail because of how horrible it is. In this instance, I'm ok with that. Whatever it takes to reeducate people that are caught committing this I'm ok with. But the reality is we have to work with what we have. If I'm given the opportunity to vote for more rehabilitation for pedophiles I will. Until then, just because the justice/penal system isn't spit polish perfect doesn't mean it shouldn't be used in this, one of the most appropriate of situations.

seconded to the person who said that the overly righteous (borderline obsessive in SOME cases) societal response to sexual abuse plays a huge part in the continued ostracization of victims.

The Code is Almighty wrote:And once again, these guys aren't being lynched. Everyone can bitch and moan about how this ruins their lives, but the lives you're talking about are straw houses; they're trying to fuck kids on the side.

So you're saying that as human beings, our entire value and worth ought to be measured wholly in terms of the single most desperate act we have ever committed? A person commits one single act and suddenly their whole life becomes a "straw house"?

Dude, that's fucking sad. I will never understand that lack of empathy for another human being.

Colonel Panic wrote:So you're saying that as human beings, our entire value and worth ought to be measured wholly in terms of the single most desperate act we have ever committed? A person commits one single act and suddenly their whole life becomes a "straw house"?

It's never "one single act" when it comes to child molestation.

I hears what yer laying down, but I think for some acts/crimes hysteria is warranted, this being one of them.

Johnny C wrote:

That guy totally looks like someone who wishes that basketball hoop was a six-year-old's butthole.

Hysteria is never warranted. It is often exploited, however.

Recidivism rates for sex crimes (in general) are about 64%, far lower than for most drug crimes and even lower than many property crimes. The "99% recidivism rate" argument is bullshit that not borne out by statistics, but is nonetheless often cited by hysterical fear-mongers.

The Code is Almighty wrote:How is this not catching them in the act?

Well, they weren't actually doing what we want to stop. They weren't grooming children and having sex with them. They were mistakenly communicating with adults who are trained to mislead them into a trap. If you want to watch chatrooms and track down actual perverts, be my guest. But creating pretend pervert scenarios is different from discovering the real thing.

I get the whole hard line "we can't let the government encroach on our rights" thing, but isn't this a situation where you pause and say "well..I guess in this instance there's some justification?"

No.

You also make it sound like no one should go to jail because of how horrible it is. In this instance, I'm ok with that.

Yeah, I know you are. I'm not.

If I'm given the opportunity to vote for more rehabilitation for pedophiles I will. Until then, just because the justice/penal system isn't spit polish perfect doesn't mean it shouldn't be used in this, one of the most appropriate of situations.

As long as the "whatever it takes" punishment mentality is in place, there will never be serious attempts made to rehabilitate any criminals, and certainly not for criminals with addictive/psychological underpinnings for their crimes. We will get more arrests, more prisoners, more punishment, more profit for the private prison corporations, more bandwagon-jumping assholes on television demonizing convicts.

That's what you get when you settle for this bullshit.

H-GM wrote:

Colonel Panic wrote:So you're saying that as human beings, our entire value and worth ought to be measured wholly in terms of the single most desperate act we have ever committed? A person commits one single act and suddenly their whole life becomes a "straw house"?

It's never "one single act" when it comes to child molestation.

I hears what yer laying down, but I think for some acts/crimes hysteria is warranted, this being one of them.

Seriously, how many people you know have 'dabbled' in preying on and fucking little children?
You know did it once or twice but got bored with it and now they are a normal healthy productive human being?

Colonel Panic wrote:Hysteria is never warranted. It is often exploited, however.

"Hysteria" was the wrong word to use. My bad.

Recidivism rates for sex crimes (in general) are about 64%, far lower than for most drug crimes and even lower than many property crimes. The "99% recidivism rate" argument is bullshit that not borne out by statistics, but is nonetheless often cited by hysterical fear-mongers.

Sex crimes in general or the specific act of child molestation?

Even if it's not a single act. If somebody has a problem with a destructive or antisocial behavior that they cannot control by themselves, they need to get help for it. If they've harmed another person through the course of that kind of behavior, then justice and/or retribution is in order. But in a "predatory" form of crime, if there's no victim, then there's no crime. Period. Creating a fake crime then arresting people as if it were real is a legal fiction which I believe is improper and unethical.

I used to partake in illegal drugs at one time in my life, and I once got caught up in a police sting while walking down the street past a known drug-selling house. They approached me, asked me what kind of drugs I was attempting to buy. I naturally recognized that they were not the usual people who dealt the drugs at that location, so I didn't trust them. I told them I was just walking down the street and was uninterested in buying anything. They grabbed me and corralled me into a backyard, handcuffed me to a bunch of other people and arrested me even though I never expressed any interest in buying drugs to anybody on that occasion.

Anyway, they took all the money I had in my pocket at the time and locked me up at the police station for the night. After 3 court appearances, the charges were thrown out but I never got my money back. These are the kind of tactics which I believe are wrong, regardless of the nature of the crime they're investigating (short of perhaps murder or other violent crimes).