evolu wrote:

Antero wrote:

evolu wrote:Big Muffs are great (well the first issue triangle knobs version are, the rest of them sound shite, especially the black and red piece of shit) but I wouldn't class the BM as 'Fuzz', no, not fuzz

What would you call it, then?

Big Muff = Distortion, Hi gain overdrive. Smooth, saturated
Fuzz = Shin-Ei, Univox SF, Dallas Arbiter Fuzz Face. Spluttery, farty, spitty.

Worlds apart my friend

Eh. I've got boxes kicking around that'll do either depending on where you put the knobs.

But there's definitely something not high-gain-overdrive-like about a proper Muff. Smooth, certainly, but there's something about the shape of the low end that is distinctly fuzz-like.

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However, the Danelectro French Toast is an exact clone of the Tone Machine, for significantly cheaper.[/quote]

Ill second this pedal. Its retarded cheap and it works great. Some folks like to re-house it since its in a cheap ass plastic case. worth the 30 bucks for sure.

six acre lake wrote:I would skip the overpriced zvex pedals and go for the Zoom Ultra fuzz.

The Zoom Ultra Fuzz isn't being manufactured anymore, and they don't seem readily available anywhere.

I see that there is one on ebay right now with a starting bid of $150. You can get a new Vexter Fuzz Factory for around $180.

If somebody knows where all the cheap Zoom Ultra Fuzz pedals are, I'd be interested.

Sorry about the inavalability of a cheap ultra fuzz I bought one last year for around $50. The original price was arround $150 (that was like 5 years ago) I would keep my eyes open and perhaps one will come your way but I guess the word is out on thease boxes. At least you know we were not bullshiting you about the zoom (which has a bad rep).

The company that puts it effects in little square plastic boxes that look like compartments in ice trays has a $60 fuzz that is really nasty.

On the question "is the big muff" a fuzz box I would have to say the earliest version the pi in the small box was cause it had transistors and sound fuzzyer. The later ones which are the famous ones were ic based and like a mxr distortion + drunk and on steroids at the same time it does have some fuzzy aspects. The best aspect of the EH stuff is they were making stuff from what what avalable and in many ways just throwing crazy things out there.

The classic fuzz tones seem to come from pre1975 boxes. Distortion changes then to MXR sounds and then later to Rat sounds generally. The fuzz was a dated sound by that point. The other boxes sounded more like a overdriven marshall - kind of - the Big Muff sounds like a large dog pluged into a wall socket.

The difference seems to be in how drastic the tonal change is. The later boxes seem to not to be able to make you guitar sound like a anal kazoo.

Big John wrote:On the question "is the big muff" a fuzz box I would have to say the earliest version the pi in the small box was cause it had transistors and sound fuzzyer. The later ones which are the famous ones were ic based and like a mxr distortion + drunk and on steroids at the same time it does have some fuzzy aspects. The best aspect of the EH stuff is they were making stuff from what what avalable and in many ways just throwing crazy things out there.

The classic fuzz tones seem to come from pre1975 boxes. Distortion changes then to MXR sounds and then later to Rat sounds generally. The fuzz was a dated sound by that point. The other boxes sounded more like a overdriven marshall - kind of - the Big Muff sounds like a large dog pluged into a wall socket.

The difference seems to be in how drastic the tonal change is. The later boxes seem to not to be able to make you guitar sound like a anal kazoo.

I see. guess it's all down to interpretation. My definition of fuzz is different from yours.
I have a couple of triangle knob BM's (one on brown glass board the other on vero) and a Rams head (EH3003 PCB) and an early 80's black and red.
The triangle knobs have a lot more gain and output than any of the others, the black and red sounds like every distortion pedal made since the late 70's (but a crap version of them) the Rams head sounds best with chords but a bit whiney with single note ramblings.

Actually evolu I think we are pretty much on the same page.

Most of my ownership experience of big muffs come from a red and black unit and a deluxe (BM + soul preacher) to me the were a lot of fun and gave more umph than the Boss de-1 or the mxr distortion + which were pretty much the only other choices to me at the time. I agree that they really do a different thing than a fuzz face or the like and are "more modern" distortion. The older Big Muffs I have used have been in the recording studio where they had the older ones and they had a different sound to me which I liked. Presently I have a double muff and the old red and black model (which I don't use much). Even the Jordan Boss Tone is less a fuzz than a distortion box.

I guess the fuzz thing to me is like the sound of "satisfaction" there was a long period in the 80's where I seemed to be one of the few interested in old fuzz boxes so I got a bunch of things at that point at a bargain which I now could not afford. The sound to me is like there is a swarm of insects buzzing arround the original tone with is over driven this I believe is the effect of the square wave (diode cut) in the circuit. Later boxes used a different grouping of diodes that result in a different style of clipping which is less abrupt. As well the input from the guitar picking or turning the volume up should effect a fuzz box in a direct way (because they were old they did not have a input buffer or make up limiter)

I like the Harmonic Percolater because Steve Albini talks about it so highly. It has this great fuzzy sound. It's also improved over the years.

I watched a video where Steve talked about buying four and kept one for himself.

just wondering, what is the best choice for a cheap and good, messy fuzz? guyatone? big muff?

Another vote for the Zoom Ultra Fuzz. They can be got for peanuts on Ebay, if you're patient.