jimmy spako wrote:

DrAwkward wrote:I have yet to read anything Obama has said himself about his faith that can't be parsed into "i don't really wear my faith on my sleeve like this but i'm choosing my words to win votes." Peeps need to chill.

unfortunately not true. in his faith-based initiatives speech, he essentially said, "bush, now that was one motherfucking pander bear right there. me, i mean it...i'm gonna show y'all how a real jesus freak rolls."

That's not how i read it.

Benny wrote:

johnnyshape wrote:Rick, if you really want attention this badly, why not get a puppy?

i will paypal 5 bucks for the purchase of a puppy for rick. i'm serious.

just like dad....

jimmy spako wrote:the realities: the democrats are in a position to stop the war in iraq & they do not. many, many of them are not in districts where their positions are threatened, see dianne feinstein & her ilk. obama himself is talking plainly about keeping the permanent bases & reducing to non-combattant personnel. the democrats have been complicit in taking away civil liberties & making sure we don't find out how deep the massive abuses have gone. all that shit, over & over, although there is no logical reason for it. they are simply down with american imperialism, america first & an authoritarian surveillance state. sad, but true.

whatever the republicans do, you guys assume that their hearts are in it. why bend over backwards trying to find reasons to explain the indefensible shit that the democrats do? why go to all kinds of crazy lengths in order to be able to fantasize that obama is a deviously clever progressive double agent instead of just taking years of action & word at face value? i don't get it.

It's true.

I'm hoping that once he's in office, he can do some good and un-do some bad. But I admit it's just a fantasy, and that the reality is that Obama's already checked in as an imperialist plus voted for FISA telcom immunity, etc.

I was surprised when I heard that Obama was a Christian as well but then I learned that he is more of a Christian in the MLK tradition: the church is a place to reach out to the poor through community service and a place for activism. For some, it's also a fairly good political jumping off point.

I feel better about Obama's version of Christianity then say, George W's because it's a lot more vague then, "God told me to invade Iraq."

My guess is that if it wasn't for America's fixation on god and Christianity, Obama wouldn't even be mentioning religion but in this day and age (as someone else has already mentioned) you have to be faithful to Jesus to get elected.

We're reaching the end of July so I'm sure he's been up to Bohemian Grove by now and been blackmailed up there.

Taught how to play the role and listen.

That's why they keep cameras all over the Grove.

Noone would ever want the world to see a video of them pissing on some 7 year old MK-Ultra victim.

He's probably "a christian" in the way most people are: Doesn't believe a word of it but pretends to, to be polite and thinks there are some moral points made in the gospels that have value beyond any religious significance.

I have no problem with normal behavior like that.

Considering that he previously admitted to being a religious skeptic, I absolutely do not believe that he's any kind of christian. I can't read his mind or anything, but he wanted to get into politics, and historically it is damn near impossible to climb that ladder without a religious affiliation. It's bullshit that it has to be that way, but whatever Obama has to say publicly to convince people he isn't a heathen, he doesn't seem to let that creep into his policies. I'm glad for that, and it's why I don't think he's actually religious at all. Agnostic at least, perhaps even an atheist. Hey, Thomas Jefferson pulled it off.

I think it's important to remember not to confuse "christians" with "evangelicals."

Christians:



Evangelicals:



Both had/have designs on changing the nation. One so that it could live up to the promises made in the Constitution, the other so that we can tear up the Constitution and make the King James version of the bible the Rule of Law.

This is a very important distinction to make.

I don't hate Christians. I think that the church, particularly Southern Black congregations, have led the Nation towards reform of some very bad laws.


These guys, though, they kind of creep me out:




Here endeth the Lesson.

steve wrote:He's probably "a christian" in the way most people are: Doesn't believe a word of it but pretends to, to be polite and thinks there are some moral points made in the gospels that have value beyond any religious significance.

I have no problem with normal behavior like that.

you have no problem with the meager vestiges of a social system that we still have being outsourced to private "confessional" (religiously ideological) organisations? i very seriously doubt that.


i am a sellout liberal. card-carrying. maybe not globalist, hq is dragging their feet on that shit. but we are being had. we grow up to believe that the democrats' hearts are essentially in the right place, though they haven't done much for us in fucking ages. at least the neocons got their war. what did we get? & we are trained to denounce any outsiders, any third party candidates, as if they are fucking up our choice that is basically no choice. we are trained to see those who truely speak in our interest as "spoilers."

i've lived outside the usa basically my entire adult life. i am very lucky, lucky enough to live in a country with universal health care. as such, it's easy for me to forget that there is some difference between the two parties. i try to remind myself of that. domestically, these are no small differences. i wish with all my fucking heart that my family will still see universal health care soon, & all you fake sellout liberals too. god knows we all deserve it. i don't want to play down these essential differences.

but we all know that the big picture is much much bigger than that. & the fact is that the two ruling parties are very comfortable with the elephant in the room. they are not interested in an elephant-free reality. period.

my vote is with whoever thinks we can find a way to live without the elephant.

i have nothing against actual wrinkly old elephants.


p.s.: harvey milk rocks hard, though oxbow just might rock even harder.

p.p.s.: rereading i realise this rant is a bit off-topic, but still this readiness to excuse the (for me) unexcusable is symptomatic of the larger problems in our system.

steve wrote:He's probably "a christian" in the way most people are: Doesn't believe a word of it but pretends to, to be polite and thinks there are some moral points made in the gospels that have value beyond any religious significance.

I have no problem with normal behavior like that.

Do you recite talking points into the mirror each morning?

I have never met anybody that holds such a self-imposed double standard as this. At least, not anybody that I respect.