That's hilarious.

fedaykin13 wrote:

that damned fly wrote:

joelb wrote:Dork alert, but I was paying attention. As Batman jumps on his bike, Gordon yelled "which one are you taking?" or some such thing, and Batman, choosing his lady love over the future of Gotham, grunts out "Rachel." Then he clearly gets totally hosed. I think. Joker switched the addresses.

that did happen. i remember it.

batman thought he was going after rachel.

I guess in my mind
I'd heard so much about how dark the movie was going to be
and I said to myself
"he lied to look good and went for Dent instead"

Yeah, this is a significantly less impressive movie if he didn't intentionally go after Dent. A crucial distinction between Dent and Wayne is lost.

joelb wrote:People in my theater laughed at the Joker at a few very inappropriate moments. I guess I didn't see the humor.

i thought he was funny the whole way through.

tocharian wrote:Yeah, this is a significantly less impressive movie if he didn't intentionally go after Dent. A crucial distinction between Dent and Wayne is lost.

I don't get this. His choice to go after Rachel reinforces how different he and Dent are - Wayne can't be Gotham's white knight/hero because he is too caught up satisfying personal demons and desires. He cares less about the redemption of his city than himself. Which I think is a pretty nice antihero move for a mass-market film. Isn't that the point?

joelb wrote:

tocharian wrote:Yeah, this is a significantly less impressive movie if he didn't intentionally go after Dent. A crucial distinction between Dent and Wayne is lost.

I don't get this. His choice to go after Rachel reinforces how different he and Dent are - Wayne can't be Gotham's white knight/hero because he is too caught up satisfying personal demons and desires. He cares less about the redemption of his city than himself. Which I think is a pretty nice antihero move for a mass-market film. Isn't that the point?

As I said earlier, the Wayne/Rachel thing is an Abraham/Isaac test of faith. There's a distinction between someone who is a "hero" and someone who is a true "knight of faith." The hero does not pass the test of faith; he will not sacrifice that which is most dear to him, the certain (Rachel) for the uncertain (redemption)... only the certain for the even more certain. The knight of faith, on the other hand:

Kierkegaard wrote:renounces everything, and perhaps at the same time barricades himself from the sublime joy that was so precious to him that he would buy it at any price.

...

The knight of faith is assigned solely to himself; he feels the pain of being unable to make himself understandable to others, but he has no vain desire to instruct others. The pain is his assurance...

Sounds like Batman to me.

Anyway, this is a lot of embarrassing gasbaggery if he indeed went after Rachel.

tocharian wrote:

joelb wrote:

tocharian wrote:Yeah, this is a significantly less impressive movie if he didn't intentionally go after Dent. A crucial distinction between Dent and Wayne is lost.

I don't get this. His choice to go after Rachel reinforces how different he and Dent are - Wayne can't be Gotham's white knight/hero because he is too caught up satisfying personal demons and desires. He cares less about the redemption of his city than himself. Which I think is a pretty nice antihero move for a mass-market film. Isn't that the point?

As I said earlier, the Wayne/Rachel thing is an Abraham/Isaac test of faith. There's a distinction between someone who is a "hero" and someone who is a true "knight of faith." The hero does not pass the test of faith; he will not sacrifice that which is most dear to him, the certain (Rachel) for the uncertain (redemption)... only the certain for the even more certain. The knight of faith, on the other hand:

Kierkegaard wrote:renounces everything, and perhaps at the same time barricades himself from the sublime joy that was so precious to him that he would buy it at any price.

...

The knight of faith is assigned solely to himself; he feels the pain of being unable to make himself understandable to others, but he has no vain desire to instruct others. The pain is his assurance...

Sounds like Batman to me.

Anyway, this is a lot of embarrassing gasbaggery if he indeed went after Rachel.

well after reading posts here
and remembering stuff
it does seem he was going after Rachel
however one thing that has bothered me
Batman didn't seemed surprised when he showed up
and found Dent.
no getting down on his knees arching his back
screaming to the sky "Nooooo!"
because the Joker fooled him.
hmmm....
I mean yes. He did say "i'm going after Rachel"

Saw it a second time yesterday. Honestly, the only thing that bugged me was the boat thing. Nolan should've come up with a better conclusion....it was too typical action movie-ish.

Nolan's pretty much on top of the world right now, in my eyes. Let's hope he stays there....

fedaykin13 wrote:

tocharian wrote:

joelb wrote:

tocharian wrote:Yeah, this is a significantly less impressive movie if he didn't intentionally go after Dent. A crucial distinction between Dent and Wayne is lost.

I don't get this. His choice to go after Rachel reinforces how different he and Dent are - Wayne can't be Gotham's white knight/hero because he is too caught up satisfying personal demons and desires. He cares less about the redemption of his city than himself. Which I think is a pretty nice antihero move for a mass-market film. Isn't that the point?

As I said earlier, the Wayne/Rachel thing is an Abraham/Isaac test of faith. There's a distinction between someone who is a "hero" and someone who is a true "knight of faith." The hero does not pass the test of faith; he will not sacrifice that which is most dear to him, the certain (Rachel) for the uncertain (redemption)... only the certain for the even more certain. The knight of faith, on the other hand:

Kierkegaard wrote:renounces everything, and perhaps at the same time barricades himself from the sublime joy that was so precious to him that he would buy it at any price.

...

The knight of faith is assigned solely to himself; he feels the pain of being unable to make himself understandable to others, but he has no vain desire to instruct others. The pain is his assurance...

Sounds like Batman to me.

Anyway, this is a lot of embarrassing gasbaggery if he indeed went after Rachel.

well after reading posts here
and remembering stuff
it does seem he was going after Rachel
however one thing that has bothered me
Batman didn't seemed surprised when he showed up
and found Dent.
no getting down on his knees arching his back
screaming to the sky "Nooooo!"
because the Joker fooled him.
hmmm....
I mean yes. He did say "i'm going after Rachel"

Well, I mean even if you show up and it's the wrong person, seems like you'd still have to rescue them regardless. If he would've stopped to pull off a Revenge of the Sith type regret scene, Harvey Two-Face would've been Harvey No-Face.

I noticed the lack of a big hollywood "NOOOOOO"", as well and I found it not confusing, but more believable in a way. Batman was just all business. He knew he had to save Dent as well, or else he'd have nothing to hope for.

tocharian wrote:
There's a distinction between someone who is a "hero" and someone who is a true "knight of faith." The hero does not pass the test of faith; he will not sacrifice that which is most dear to him, the certain (Rachel) for the uncertain (redemption)... only the certain for the even more certain. The knight of faith, on the other hand:

Kierkegaard wrote:renounces everything, and perhaps at the same time barricades himself from the sublime joy that was so precious to him that he would buy it at any price.

...

The knight of faith is assigned solely to himself; he feels the pain of being unable to make himself understandable to others, but he has no vain desire to instruct others. The pain is his assurance...

In choosing Rachel, Batman has made the decision of a hero..that which was dearest to him over the uncertain redemtion, only to find it was never his decision to make; the joker had preconceived his actions and decided where he would end up, ultimately turning Batman into the knight of faith without him wanting to be. When he gets to the warehouse he realizes what has happened, and has no choice but to save Dent and deal with it.

I think that's the important thing to recognize..the cruelty of pushing Batman into the ultimate decison to be either a hero or a knight of faith and then turning him into the oppposite of what he wanted to be. A pretty sick joke?