I'm kind of glad to see Manny go, but ...

I think the Red Sox gave up a bit much for Jason Bay, who I also like. But I think Brandon Moss if he got regular at-bats would have been a suitable replacement.

Craig Hansen - meh, take him.

edit: I get annoyed when people refer to moves that their favorite teams make as a move "we" made. I did that. All apologies.

That's interesting.

The Dodgers already have 4 outfielders. Ideally they'd put Manny, Kemp & Ethier out there, but I find it hard to trust that those bozos will put the $17M combo of Jones/Pierre on the bench.

Between this and the White Sox picking up Griffey, which will make 6 players vying for 4 positions, I feel as though I'm missing something.

tommydski wrote:I guess Torre finally got Manny after all these years.

He is an absolutely mercenary fuck but he's still a legend. Two World Series and so many amusing memories from over the years. Just Manny being Manny. Salut, big guy. Good luck on the west coast.

As a life long Dodgers fan, I am still taking this information in. Here are some preliminary thoughts on this deal.

PROS:
- Dodgers FINALLY acquire the big bat that is needed in the line-up. With Jones being a complete bust and Kemp still in development, perhaps the Dodgers can become that offensive threat many predicted the young guys would be prior to the season beginning.
- Dodgers did not give up any of the talented young guys on the starting staff. The core nucleus of Kemp/Ethier/Loney/Martin/Billingsly/Broxton/Kershaw remains in place. In fact, the three minor leaguers the Dodgers traded for Ramirez would have made little to (more realistically) no impact for the organization. LaRoche was given numerous chances to prove himself but to no avail. Morris is in question, having had surgery. And the other guy . . . meh.
- Dodgers may now stand a chance in the weak NL West. Hot on the heels of the Diamondbacks, this may be the offensive push to counter the low runs scored that has plagued this offense all year and easily cost 'em low scoring games where the Dodgers pitching staff only gave up two or three runs.

CONS:
- Dodgers face a crowded outfield. Torre has shown his reluctance to bench Jones. His unflattering numbers (both on batting and on the scale) have made him the laughingstock of baseball. He has cost the team many runs. Pierre has the speed, but he is quite prone to popping up. He'd be better suited for pinch running/hitting and maybe playing outfield when one of the other guys needs a rest. Kemp and Ethier have been consistent on the field and in the box, yet Ethier has been slighted in favor of Jones. With Torre's known habit of playing vets over younger guys, the crowded outfield may mean less playing time for Ethier.

- Dodgers STILL need a shortstop. Berroa isn't even a utility man, Maza is AA caliber, and Lu still needs two more years at the AAA level. 2nd base is also a sore point with Kent, but Blake Dewitt can comfortably fit that spot should Kent be injured. DeWitt played 2nd base prior to his call-up in the big leagues. If he put more work into his bat, he can be a starter next season.

- AND PERHAPS THE WORST CON FROM THIS TRADE! - This may keep Ned Colletti around for two more years. Despite Colletti's skill at signing talent that is either on the decline or injury prone (think Schmidt, Jones, Garciaparra, Saenz, Mueller, Tomko), and the overall view that he has been running this team to the ground, the Ramirez trade may stem favor his way and cause people to forget his previous acquisitions. Colletti should be driven out of town, even with this trade. Fortunately, he has not given up the core nucleus of the team . . . yet.

Manny Ramirez, a 24 year old OF with an OPS over .800 at every level of the minors, a Baseball America 2005 First Team All-American, and $7 million for Jason Bay.

Thank you, Theo Epstein.

tinycorkscrew wrote:[Ken Griffey, Jr. is] probably the worst fielding RF in MLB.

The worst fielding RF in the NL, at least, is Brad Hawpe of the Colorado Rockies.

Holy shit!

Look at these numbers!

Then why do I wish the Sox had traded for Brad Hawpe instead?

Dr. Geek wrote:

tommydski wrote:I guess Torre finally got Manny after all these years.

He is an absolutely mercenary fuck but he's still a legend. Two World Series and so many amusing memories from over the years. Just Manny being Manny. Salut, big guy. Good luck on the west coast.

As a life long Dodgers fan, I am still taking this information in. Here are some preliminary thoughts on this deal.

PROS:
- Dodgers FINALLY acquire the big bat that is needed in the line-up. With Jones being a complete bust and Kemp still in development, perhaps the Dodgers can become that offensive threat many predicted the young guys would be prior to the season beginning.
- Dodgers did not give up any of the talented young guys on the starting staff. The core nucleus of Kemp/Ethier/Loney/Martin/Billingsly/Broxton/Kershaw remains in place. In fact, the three minor leaguers the Dodgers traded for Ramirez would have made little to (more realistically) no impact for the organization. LaRoche was given numerous chances to prove himself but to no avail. Morris is in question, having had surgery. And the other guy . . . meh.
- Dodgers may now stand a chance in the weak NL West. Hot on the heels of the Diamondbacks, this may be the offensive push to counter the low runs scored that has plagued this offense all year and easily cost 'em low scoring games where the Dodgers pitching staff only gave up two or three runs.

CONS:
- Dodgers face a crowded outfield. Torre has shown his reluctance to bench Jones. His unflattering numbers (both on batting and on the scale) have made him the laughingstock of baseball. He has cost the team many runs. Pierre has the speed, but he is quite prone to popping up. He'd be better suited for pinch running/hitting and maybe playing outfield when one of the other guys needs a rest. Kemp and Ethier have been consistent on the field and in the box, yet Ethier has been slighted in favor of Jones. With Torre's known habit of playing vets over younger guys, the crowded outfield may mean less playing time for Ethier.

- Dodgers STILL need a shortstop. Berroa isn't even a utility man, Maza is AA caliber, and Lu still needs two more years at the AAA level. 2nd base is also a sore point with Kent, but Blake Dewitt can comfortably fit that spot should Kent be injured. DeWitt played 2nd base prior to his call-up in the big leagues. If he put more work into his bat, he can be a starter next season.

- AND PERHAPS THE WORST CON FROM THIS TRADE! - This may keep Ned Colletti around for two more years. Despite Colletti's skill at signing talent that is either on the decline or injury prone (think Schmidt, Jones, Garciaparra, Saenz, Mueller, Tomko), and the overall view that he has been running this team to the ground, the Ramirez trade may stem favor his way and cause people to forget his previous acquisitions. Colletti should be driven out of town, even with this trade. Fortunately, he has not given up the core nucleus of the team . . . yet.

This is going to be fun watching manny patrol in a pitchers park.

steve wrote:Then why do I wish the Sox had traded for Brad Hawpe instead?

Because he is cheaper, younger and the better offensive player.

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:

tinycorkscrew wrote:[Ken Griffey, Jr. is] probably the worst fielding RF in MLB.

The worst fielding RF in the NL, at least, is Brad Hawpe of the Colorado Rockies.

Holy shit!

Look at these numbers!

Maybe, but not necessarily. ESPN still uses the old Zone Rating formula. John Dewan, the originator of the stat, has since revised it to make it more accurate:

Revised Zone Rating for National League RF

At any rate, Griffey was the worst CF in the NL in 2006 by a pretty wide margin:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... _i_see_it/

I guess the real question is whether his bat will make up for his defensive liabilities. I'm not sure it will.

tinycorkscrew wrote:Maybe, but not necessarily. ESPN still uses the old Zone Rating formula. John Dewan, the originator of the stat, has since revised it to make it more accurate:

Revised Zone Rating for National League RF

I don't think Bradley R. Weissenberger is a big fan of that particular metric.