tmidgett wrote:
Steve hates jazz.

Get it?

He hates jazz. Blues too.

Blues? How do you explain Third World War then? Very blues oriented but they rock hard at the same time.

steve wrote:I was specifically asked about my appreciation of bands as the essential art form of rock music, and why that didn't apply to jazz music. I think there ought to be a broad consensus that it doesn't. Suggesting that one or another of these ad-hoc ensembles was really good for however long it lasted is actually supporting my position, not negating it.

None of the jazz groups that anyone has ever given a shit about have had "ad-hoc ensembles". None ever. That's why they gave a shit about them. Any of the big names in Jazz, past or present, are only talked about in terms of their groups.

He's supposed to play here end of August, at the Chicago Jazz Festival in Grant Park.

Not the ideal venue, but shit, he's an old man now and I'll take anything I can get.

I finally bought Sound Grammar a few months ago.

It's a fantastic record.

His solo on "Richard Pryor Addresses a Tearful Nation" on Joe Henry's "Scar" is infuckingcredible.

I'm a huge Coleman fan but this...probably my favorite stretch of music ever.

Also, what kind of eardrum-less underacheiver votes crap on this poll? Honestly, what the fuck do you listen to?

Wow, almost a year later the thread revives from it's slumber. OC is a total bad-ass. I don't listen with any regularity because I'm a very big band and funk oriented individual (Huge into Maynard Ferguson) but on the whole Ornette has it all wrapped up.

I happen to like Ornette Coleman a whole lot, but that's neither there nor there. This is a story about how Christian--a bland but ethical suite-mate I wound up stuck with my sophomore year of college--felt, and presumably still feels, about Ornette Coleman:

A self-described Jeffersonian-Democrat, Christian had a strictly laissez-faire policy about what we played on our stereos and how loudly we played it, even though he himself played nothing, claiming as he did not to be interested in music of any kind. (Apart from Cheap Trick's "Surrender": he once admitted to liking that song okay. I think it was the one thing we ever agreed on.) That meant that over the course of a semester, poor, overmatched Christian tolerated not only his roommate Andrew's Rush, Jesus Jones, and Weird Al Yankovic (up until I met Andrew I had never thought it possible that a person my age could own 1,500 CDs--he kept them all in a needlessly padlocked-at-all-times steamer trunk--and not have a single one that I would at least deem listenable); but also my Minutemen, Jesus Lizard, and Six Finger Satellite, and perhaps most miraculously of all, my roommate's Poison Idea and GG Allin. Christian was so consistent and Zen-like in his libertarian views, that after a couple months I was even, in my fuzzier moments, starting to think that there might be something to them...

...And that's when I spun for the first time--at a decent hour and volume, mind you--my copy of Ornette Coleman's Free Jazz. Within two and a half minutes there was a knock on my door:

"Would you please turn that down?"
"But you said you would never complain about anybody's music."
"I did. That's not music."

Not Crap.

tmidgett wrote:
I 'understood' Ornette Coleman and John Coltrane and Albert Ayler the first time I heard any or them. It's elemental music. Sure, it grows on you over time and you hear different things in it etc., but it is pretty in-your-face about what it is.

Woah, really? Where were you when I was trying to failing Calc II or still trying to understand women? i know what you mean, but it took about 5 years of listening to jazz to actually hear the changes, other things. It took longer to hear the things that Ornette can do with a melody.

I don't know how someone can discredit a genre (which is loosely a genre, a none of the above genre) because some musicians claiming that style get grants/funding. Makes no sense. The Buzzcocks got paid from a car commercial so punk meant absolutely nothing I guess? IT IS NOT PART OF THE MUSIC. It's someone else's hang up. All these people want to do is their music/art and the grants allow for that.

There is SO much information in the best jazz music. Like, SO MUCH. I can't actively listen to any of the mid-60s Miles Davis albums in the car or I will be distracted and it's not safe for driving. That's the thing, you can't passively listen to this stuff and it does take a little shred of knowledge of what they are doing: the melody, changes/no changes, form, other parameters, etc. Without that, any jazz after Charlie Parker can only be enjoyed for just the sound and energy, which is enough for most jazz fans really.

To Steve's credit, Mingus and others didn't think there was anything going on with Ornette's music. I guess they didn't hear the things he was doing either. Maybe they were just annoyed at his tone or that he admittedly wasn't a very good player.

I could care less if someone doesn't like jazz, but say there is nothing going on is way wrong. if you look at the music on paper it can be dissected like a crossword puzzle just like Bach. This might give some insight into basic, melodic improvising and how it is similar to 'Variations' in classical music:
http://www.melmartin.com/html_pages/Int ... onitz.html

Rick Reuben wrote:

fancyjamtime wrote:Also, what kind of eardrum-less underacheiver votes crap on this poll?

A Montana native and graduate of Northwestern University with a degree in journalism, Steve has made over 1000 records by over 1000 bands.

fancyjamtime wrote: Honestly, what the fuck do you listen to?

Big Black, Rapeman, Shellac, and a thousand other bands.

I probably should have emailed you beforehand that I intended to engage in hyperbole.

I have not recorded over 1000 bands. Therefore, I will be withdrawing my opinion about people who would vote crap on Ornette Coleman. He must objectively suck. I also apologize to those I have called eardrum-less. There is at least a chance that you possess eardrums.

Obviously I didn't know beforehand that Steve didn't like jazz or I would have changed my opinion.

I must be more careful about how I phrase my posts lest I incur the wrath of sycophantic paranoid dickheads (not necessarily hyperbole).

What I want to know is what Rush has to do with Jazz...? I'd hate Jazz too if Rush was involved even for a second.

givemenoughrope wrote:What I want to know is what Rush has to do with Jazz...? I'd hate Jazz too if Rush was involved even for a second.

I think Alex Lifeson may have bought a Miles Davis record, or at least walked by one when he was at the Calgary mall.