Lemuel Gulliver wrote:They still have debtor's prison?

Or is it just called Georgia?

no, there is no debtor's prison. But think about it. If you could not wipe the slate clean, your creditors could hound you until you died. Read a Charles Dickens novel. A series a misfortunes following a couple of bad decisions, and you could be fucked, financially speaking, for life.

Bankruptcy is neccessary. For individuals and for companies.

Keep in mind that there are different types of bankruptcy.

Chapter 7 bankruptcy involves the liquidation of all of the debtor's non-exempt assets. The proceeds from the sales are then divided amongst creditors. After the funds have been distributed, the filer is free from further liability on these debts (Some debts are not dischargeable including taxes, alimony, child support etc.)

Chapter 13 bankruptcy allows a debtor who has limited debts and a stable income to pay off debts under a court approved payoff plan rather than liquidate their assets.

steve wrote:

Hiwatt wrote:It just gets me when I see people abusing the shit either outta stupidity or sheer laziness.

Yeah, all those people indulgently losing everything they ever had. The nerve. Really burns you up, does it? Those greedy, squandering poor people finding a way to go broke?

Fuck off.

Example: I was one of two sous chefs at a high end catering company. We heard via a few of my vendors that they hadn't been paid in months. I passed this info up the chain and found out it was true. Then the owners pretty much stopped showing up and we figured that we were doomed. We were. We showed up one morning to find a note on the back door telling us we were all out of a job, and that they declared bankruptcy. No warning no nothing. I'm sure that's normal though. But the owners live in Highland Park and Lake Bluff and have money. I think they lost interest in the catering company and decided this would be the best way to put it to rest. It might have been ok, except none of us ever got paid. So yeah, those greedy, squandering poor people finding a way to go broke did upset me. I will admit it was cunning though.

Anyway, that's my experience. And these people are still around, and still owe all of us money we'll never get. They are still living the life like nothing ever happened. This is the kind of abuse I probably shoulda cited as an example.

So yeah, my original point came across poorly and I realize that. Accept my apologies please, and understand I am not trying to be a troll.

Hiwatt wrote: I'm sure that's normal though. But the owners live in Highland Park and Lake Bluff and have money. I think they lost interest in the catering company and decided this would be the best way to put it to rest. It might have been ok, except none of us ever got paid. So yeah, those greedy, squandering poor people finding a way to go broke did upset me. I will admit it was cunning though.

That's when it's time to call Zrinko & co.

http://www.balkanteam.de/

I'm sure there's something like this in your area.

Bankruptcy is crap, because even if it is ultimately better for you than the alternative, you're still in a shitty situation where you have to file for bankruptcy.

Hiwatt wrote:

steve wrote:

Hiwatt wrote:It just gets me when I see people abusing the shit either outta stupidity or sheer laziness.

Yeah, all those people indulgently losing everything they ever had. The nerve. Really burns you up, does it? Those greedy, squandering poor people finding a way to go broke?

Fuck off.

Example: I was one of two sous chefs at a high end catering company. We heard via a few of my vendors that they hadn't been paid in months. I passed this info up the chain and found out it was true. Then the owners pretty much stopped showing up and we figured that we were doomed. We were. We showed up one morning to find a note on the back door telling us we were all out of a job, and that they declared bankruptcy. No warning no nothing. I'm sure that's normal though. But the owners live in Highland Park and Lake Bluff and have money. I think they lost interest in the catering company and decided this would be the best way to put it to rest. It might have been ok, except none of us ever got paid. So yeah, those greedy, squandering poor people finding a way to go broke did upset me. I will admit it was cunning though.

Anyway, that's my experience. And these people are still around, and still owe all of us money we'll never get. They are still living the life like nothing ever happened. This is the kind of abuse I probably shoulda cited as an example.

So yeah, my original point came across poorly and I realize that. Accept my apologies please, and understand I am not trying to be a troll.

This is what some businesses do, it's what enables CEOs of companies to burn them up and then go on to start other businesses 6 months later.
I work in an industry that's seen me been made 'redundant' twice in the last 2 years, by companies that have been run into the gound completely, with no severance (or in my case, notice pay and lost accrued holiday pay). This all has to come from the governmental insolvency service. Which don't worry, is why the UK workforce pays national insurance AFAIK.
This is CRAP, if you've done it it's CRAP, but neither party (the former company nor the former employee) will normally have to declare themselves bankrupt. The company becomes insolvent and (as a Limited Company) are wound up.

This however is a different world from people who find themselves personally in a hopeless financial position and have no option.
Whether they spent it on credit cards or "stupidity or sheer laziness" not, they still find themselves in a bad bad situation, and it's good to know that should that ever happen to me, i won't ever have to 1) starve to death or 2) have my legs broken.

Being hopelessly in debt (where outgoings end up being far greater than anything you could hope to bring in) is a very serious situation for most people, with very serious consequences.
Let's hope you don't find yourself in such a difficult situation any time soon.

As an aside, re: the situation you described above...
The lesson i learned is, if you work for a company and they don't pay you, (unless you have some amicable agreement where they can owe you, and that's ok with you) you give them a warning and a chance. if they fail, you walk, without any further consideration. You're better off spending a month unpaid looking for a new job than a month unpaid in some job that probably won't pay out.

the$inmusicisallmine wrote:no, there is no debtor's prison. But think about it. If you could not wipe the slate clean, your creditors could hound you until you died. Read a Charles Dickens novel. A series a misfortunes following a couple of bad decisions, and you could be fucked, financially speaking, for life.

Exactly. Providing an alternative to spending decades in wage slavery because one can, at best, only afford to keep up with the accrued interest on their accounts while not even touching the principal, is in the same spirit as not having debtor's prisons.

itchy mcgoo wrote:I say crap, wf: 8.

... or wf: 9 -- scary, painful, sometimes necessary -- especially these days.

NC

Sometimes it's the only thing that people can do to hope to save themselves.

crap.


monopoly sucks anyways.