Dark and washy helps. Also, backing off the cymbals considerably: hit the drums hard, not the cymbals. My buddy Jim is better at that than anyone I know and on our recent session together, the drums sounded perfectly balanced on the rough mixes. Seems like common sense, but I hardly see anyone working towards that. He's also never broken a cymbal in 20+ years..

not a pack (or at least not that I've seen), but I've liked the Kasza cymbals I've used well enough if you're buying on a budget. Obviously get some used zildjians or whatever if you can find them, but for new stuff, those are way better than the ZBTs and such that I've used. Dream brand cymbals used to be a good cheap option but I think they've gone up in price. They're american made, I think, while the Kaszas are chinese.

Big cymbals do not necessarily mean overpowering. You might just need to buy DARKER cymbals. The hiss and brightness of Zidjian As and the like is what makes them overpowering on recordings. Before you start replacing big, bright cymbals with tiny bright cymbals, at least consider replacing them with big, dark cymbals.I'm a big fan of big, dark cymbals. The Ks are the best thing that Zildjian makes. My buddy Lemuel swears by the Paiste Dark Energy and Masters Dark cymbals, as well as the sand-blasted Meinl cymbals- Byzance? Since I got my Istanbul endorsement, I've been trying out all of their Traditional Heavy and Traditional Dark cymbals, as well as the Xists. I can't get enough of the Xists. Great sounding cymbals for cheap.

how fast you play really comes into it too. playing really fast stuff while trying to crash heavy rides can be pretty awkward.

154 wrote:Also, backing off the cymbals considerably: hit the drums hard, not the cymbals. Ultimately this is what it really comes down to.

+1 for hitting drums harder than cymbals. for me it's unfortunately easier said than done sometimes. been working on it though. +1 also for buying used... i've had good luck with zildjian a's, and they're pretty easy to find on the cheap. the k's are

Yeah, 24" rides are really specific, not very good for a general use cymbal at all, I kind of regret getting mine on some level. I mean, I love it and all, but sometimes I just want to lay into my main ride, and you really cant do that with a heavy 24" the same way you can a 20 or 21.

If you're striking cymbals with a lot of direct impact, and you feel this may be throwing off your drum/cymbal balance, you may consider a more oblique strike on the cymbal. Sort of a side-to-side motion like Ringo did. I guess whether you choose to strike a cymbal with less force, or in a glancing manner, it's still a technique change that requires some practice, but I find it easier to remember to do the glancing thing, especially in a live setting where one may tend to get caught up in the energy of the performance. You can still put a lot of force into your cymbal playing, but it's less efficiently transferred to the cymbal .

subprime wrote:I've been rethinking my use of heavy cymbals. Ive realized that for a lot of the stuff I do I get a bit too spastic for using my 24 ride. Its uses are just so specific Ive realized. I just need something that crashes easier than my secondary 20 ride cymbal that I use for a crash. I always feel sorta sketchy using heavyish cymbals as crashes because of how brittle they can be.I will once again endorse the Paiste Giant Beat 24 multipurpose cymbal. I play this cymbal in Maple Stave, a band that generally runs at around 110 dBA, both dumb complicated patterns with the tip of the stick and laying in (with the aforementioned glancing blow) with the shoulder. It sounds glorious. I also play it in the Five Fifths, a band that just made a record on which I never used sticks, only brushes and an occasional mallet. Everything was live, and I was right between an upright bass and a cello. I put a ball chain on it. It sounds glorious.It's fairly thin, and the softer B8 bronze, so darker than most. But it is both useful and lovely from a whisper to a roar.NB: I destroyed one of these at a BBQ a couple years ago. It'd had a good few years of touring, but man something about that set really made me act like a real prick to that cymbal (probably the fact that Andy was wearing GD shorts onstage). Was lucky to replace it for $250. I turned the cracked one into a 15 bottom hat (that is prone to turning inside out if I'm not careful with the pedal) and it sounds great.I'll also endorse the 20 crash and, to a slightly lesser extent, the 18. The latter is a little less consistent cymbal to cymbal, and when I was in three loud rock bands at once I was kind of mowing through them.Fucking drumming. Everything is a consumable good.Ringo! An endorsement! I salute you as I seethe with jealousy.