big\_dave wrote:Josef K wrote:The SNP position is NOTHING like the position that the Lib Dems were in. SNP is NOT in coalition with the Tories. The Lib Dems were. Surely you must understand this?I'm missing the Tory money bit. Explain?The Tory press has been throwing money at trying to undermine Labour by supporting nationalist causes, exactly as it was fear-mongering down south on the same issue. The Tory electoral campaign avoided any possible challenge to the SNP, even courted them, in order for them to massacre Labour, ensuring a low resistance to austerity in the north. That's the priority - protect housing market, protect the finance market, destroy opposition to austerity and privatisation. Scottish independence is a pipedream in the short term, but the Tories can use the time to really get busy with the secateurs. The SNP might promise to resist austerity more than the average Labour MP in England or Wales could, but the Tories know that they don't yet have the means to offer such a resistance without further autonomy - which they'll have to bargain for. SNP position is much like the Lib Dem position: they were elected on promises that they will now have to negotiate with the Tories in order to keep. It might not be a formal coalition, but it's still very similar.Scottish independence is closer today than it was last September. I watched virtually every bit of pre election TV over the last couple of months. Regardless of what the Tories said, which latterly could only be described as Scotiaphobia, the SNP line was always the same - we will not deal with the Tories. I don't know where you're getting the courting from. The SNP is in OPPOSITION. Their position is NOTHING like the Lib Dems who were in COALITION. The SNP massacred Labour in Scotland right enough, rightly so, but that didn't affect the outcome of the GE. Only England could do that.

big\_dave wrote:I hope I'm wrong but I think Sturgeon is going to be the lamest lame duck ever.Dave, you do know that Sturgeon won't be sitting at Westminster, don't you?

Dave, I don't think I'm able to deflect you from your opinion that the blame for England returning a majority Conservative government should be laid firmly at the door of the SNP & Scotland even though I've demonstrated that the arithmetic doesn't add up; that SNP will not do a deal with the Conservatives; and that the SNP did nothing to dent the Labour vote in England.

big\_dave wrote:I don't think that one seat to UKIP coast Labour the election. Neither did the millions of Tory donor funds that were spend undermining Labour in the North. Don't count your SNP chickens before they're hatched. They were guided into the position they were in by the right, and who knows what promises they'll have to break to keep their position, or keep the devolution train on the tracks. Cameron will try to broker support for austerity almost immediately. They've walked into a Lib Dem role.I'm not anti-SNP, if anything it's a lesson that Labour had to be taught, but it's still a matter of politicians in general putting political careers ahead of the lives of their constituents.The one seat to UKIP isn't a game-changer, no, but the millions of votes for UKIP undoubtedly dented Labour's challenge. I'm not counting any SNP chickens. I'm hoping they represent me in the best possible way. What I really hope for is a fantastic political multi party system in an Independent Scotland. SNP will not support the Tories. They cannot. To do so provides a Tory mandate in Scotland by proxy. That will not happen. Only one Tory MP from Scotland. Scotland is not Tory. This is the first line in any SNP speech. The only people to manoeuvre the SNP into this position were the people of Scotland. I can understand why that would make you feel better, but is just wrong.

Here's the Artist Taxi Driver's take on Scotland, Dave.phpBB [media]

Well this is depressing.

Just a few hours in and they're already getting cracking on destroying disabled people's lives even more so than before. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 37191.html

Not to rub any extra salt into your wounds, but seeing Ed Balls being trounced was a pure moment of schadenfreude. Just perfect.

I'm still learning about UK politics. Is the Torie party the one with all the paedophiles?

Sleepkid, are you British? Just wondering as I always assumed you were American for some reason. Well done everyone in Scotland who got the result they wanted. Fucking shambles everywhere else. Ed Balls as the new Portillo. Anyone up for Balls's Great Railway Journeys on BBC 4?