big\_dave wrote:I hope you're right. If it plays out like that then independence comes before the end of the decade and the SNP become the center of a reset political spectrum in Scotland, and inevitably more power would get devolved to the Welsh Assembly in response - a Labour or Labour/Plaid government for Wales. RIP Britishness : The Beast Is Finally Dead. But I think it's far more likely that this represents a peak for the SNP, and that they won't be able to resist further cuts because they'll need to negotiate everything hand-over-fist from Cameron. The Tories wouldn't be using Scottish independence as a threat if it was a realistic prospect.Plaid won three seats. The bombast from the leader's debates with Leane doing well suggested that the SNP effect would transmit to Wales. How wrong we were. 3 seats for Plaid? Hardly an earthquake. The Welsh nationalist 'surge' flattered to deceive. Let's get it straight, this is a Conservative majority govt - the outcome of the democratic preocess. No coalition. It will be extremely difficult for any party, let alone the SNP to resist Tory will.

big\_dave wrote:As I said I hope this forum's SNP apologists/supporters are correct. I hope it's just the sour grapes talking, because a successful SNP would be wonderful for Wales.SNP apologists? Has the SNP done something wrong that someone has to apologise on their behalf?

night\_tools wrote:Nico Adie wrote:No pain no gain.Labour have had their day in Scotland. They chose to ally themselves with the Tories during the referendum. This, and their relentless negativity in the Scottish parliament, was their death knell. Perhaps Murdoch's influence exacerbated this, but if you look at the voting trends in Scotland since 2007 you'll see they point one way, and that's a year on year increase in support for the SNP.Yeah I agree with this. It's been well documented ( at least in Private Eye) that it was in Murdoch's interests to stop labour getting into government as he feared increased press regulation and the enforced break-up of news corp under monopoly laws. He did this by endorsing the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland. But to say that the SNP's huge success in Scotland is due to the Scottish People being hoodwinked or manipulated by Murdoch is absurd. The SNP's huge success is due to wholesale rejection of the Labour Party in Scotland, which in turn was due the Labour Party letting us down again and again, in increasingly unforgivable ways. I think their involvement in the coalition of motherfuckers that was Better Together as well as their stubborn refusal to engage or work with the SNP was the final straw for a lot of people. This is all down to the failure of Labour - SNP filled the vacuum, and they're not even a left wing party, they're just a more populist party who are in touch with what the people want.(social justice, NHS, no trident) Nicola sturgeon is the best politician in the country at the moment..

John Turbo wrote:You have been played. Again : -Those campaigns were not aimed at Scottish voters, can't you see that? Scotland wasn't played by Murdoch and the right wing, how could it be? The massive vote for the SNP in Scotland was forged in the days after the Independence Referendum (probably many on result day with the PM's EVEL speech).The pro SNP national press came out on the days preceding the election, reflecting Scotland's intention not informing it. Even Murdoch wouldn't claim credit for that. Scotland was always going to vote this way, but we underestimated the breadth & depth of the feeling.No, you are wrong. England was played.

I think the links between Salmond and Murdoch are pretty well documented, as was the Scottish Sun's "will they, won't they" Yes vote flirtation. It's up to you to decide how much stock you put in that sort of thing I think. I mean, who hasn't Murdoch cosied up to over the years? Devils and long spoons etc.

No pain no gain.Labour have had their day in Scotland. They chose to ally themselves with the Tories during the referendum. This, and their relentless negativity in the Scottish parliament, was their death knell. Perhaps Murdoch's influence exacerbated this, but if you look at the voting trends in Scotland since 2007 you'll see they point one way, and that's a year on year increase in support for the SNP.

Ed Milliband said he'd rather there was a Tory government than for Labour to form a coalition with the SNP. His own words. The SNP is the 3rd largest party in Britain by number of members. The amount of grassroots activism they do here is quite incredible. I haven't seen Rupert Murdoch at any of the rallies or events.

Nico Adie wrote:No pain no gain.Labour have had their day in Scotland. They chose to ally themselves with the Tories during the referendum. This, and their relentless negativity in the Scottish parliament, was their death knell. Perhaps Murdoch's influence exacerbated this, but if you look at the voting trends in Scotland since 2007 you'll see they point one way, and that's a year on year increase in support for the SNP.Yeah I agree with this. It's been well documented ( at least in Private Eye) that it was in Murdoch's interests to stop labour getting into government as he feared increased press regulation and the enforced break-up of news corp under monopoly laws. He did this by endorsing the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland. But to say that the SNP's huge success in Scotland is due to the Scottish People being hoodwinked or manipulated by Murdoch is absurd. The SNP's huge success is due to wholesale rejection of the Labour Party in Scotland, which in turn was due the Labour Party letting us down again and again, in increasingly unforgivable ways. I think their involvement in the coalition of motherfuckers that was Better Together as well as their stubborn refusal to engage or work with the SNP was the final straw for a lot of people. This is all down to the failure of Labour - SNP filled the vacuum, and they're not even a left wing party, they're just a more populist party who are in touch with what the people want.(social justice, NHS, no trident) Nicola sturgeon is the best politician in the country at the moment.

You're saying 'laying your hope' as if the ballots hadn't already been counted.Why not hope? the party will do whatever they do with or without the hope of the electorate. The SNP might be able to dig in. We'll see.Collective action aside, all we're doing now is watching a five year long public school debating championship with people's lives as the high stakes, just like every go-round. The electoral process has never been the answer anyway.

Neither is Syriza.