numberthirty wrote:Gramsci wrote:I don't get it... why doesn't the US just have a temporary working visa specifically for Mexicans so they can come over and legally do all the jobs Americans seem to not want to do?Also, why do rightwingers bitch about illegals when they are the ones that vastly benefit the most from cheap labour undermining the pay and conditions of local workers? Why is immigration such a fucked up backwards issue?About these questions.The second question seems to be saying someone is benefiting from a cheap labor force they can exploit.The first question asks about jobs Americans seem to not want.You think that second one might inform that first one?The "not want" argument is a non starter. Once wages have been undermined to the point of effectively having an internal "Third World" in the labour market refusing labour is simply rational self interest. People in America do boring shitty jobs everyday as boring and shitty as anything a Latino illegal might be doing -I've see these people everyday, when I'm in the US-, only difference is the pay and conditions. I guarantee you Mcdonalds pays more than picking your oranges.

Fuck you, Trump, for providing easy examples to every cynic's view that we're resembling Idiocracy.I think after the debates he'll see a drop in the polls but who knows, maybe this year it'll be determined by arm wrestling.

Donald Trump cruisin' with the top down.

numberthirty wrote:Gramsci wrote:I don't get it... why doesn't the US just have a temporary working visa specifically for Mexicans so they can come over and legally do all the jobs Americans seem to not want to do?Also, why do rightwingers bitch about illegals when they are the ones that vastly benefit the most from cheap labour undermining the pay and conditions of local workers? From there, why are "traditional liberals" defending illegal immigration when it is "undermining the pay and conditions of local workers"?Why is immigration such a fucked up backwards issue?Those are three very good questions.Because right wingers are often hypocrites as well. Not that being a hypocrite is just limited to right wingers.

Gramsci wrote:I don't get it... why doesn't the US just have a temporary working visa specifically for Mexicans so they can come over and legally do all the jobs Americans seem to not want to do?Also, why do rightwingers bitch about illegals when they are the ones that vastly benefit the most from cheap labour undermining the pay and conditions of local workers? Why is immigration such a fucked up backwards issue?About these questions.The second question seems to be saying someone is benefiting from a cheap labor force they can exploit.The first question asks about jobs Americans seem to not want.You think that second one might inform that first one?

i am the smud wrote:Fuck you, Trump, for providing easy examples to every cynic's view that we're resembling Idiocracy.I think after the debates he'll see a drop in the polls but who knows, maybe this year it'll be determined by arm wrestling.Would have a hard time not voting for Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho

catwoman wrote:Anthony Flack wrote:if the orange growers paid market rates instead of undercutting their workers by exploiting illegal immigrants, people would be glad to do these jobs. But if you're better off working in a McDonald's, well you'd do that instead wouldn't you?but no one *wants to pay* x times as much for oranges, so they're not compelled to have any reason to pay there workers more.Well then the business isn't viable if that's the case. You want oranges, you have to pay what it costs to get oranges or you will have to do without oranges. Everyone wants everything as cheap as possible, and nobody ever wants to pay their workers more than they have to.Cotton plantation owners reckoned they 'couldn't afford' to not use slave labour, too.

Anthony Flack wrote:Angus Jung wrote:Field work is way, way harder than McDonald's. Exponentially more difficult, taxing work. Not in the same universe.That's not the point. Or in a way, it is the point.if the orange growers paid market rates instead of undercutting their workers by exploiting illegal immigrants, people would be glad to do these jobs. But if you're better off working in a McDonald's, well you'd do that instead wouldn't you?but no one *wants to pay* x times as much for oranges, so they're not compelled to have any reason to pay there workers more. What we pay at McDonald's, for crappy food, and crappy service, is about what we should expect, for paying the workers there minimum wage, but not ever employing them full-time. Not sure I'm addressing your point exactly... but my point is that neither work is comparable, nor does either provide anything resembling a living wage.

Redline wrote:August 6th for the Fox debatehttp://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/a ... can-debateI'll get the popcorn

He's wearing his baseball cap everywhere nowadays, seems like...Recent CNN headlines about Trump:Says Mexico should pay for the border wallSays 'Putin Needs To Respect Me'The 2016 GOP race is a real freak show. Who can yell the loudest? Trump. But when it comes down to it, he's going to be destroyed with regard to the actual political maneuvering it takes to solve all of these problems.