When prices come down on the parts and places like that start appearing in more places, I'm totally doing that to my Tercel.

total\_douche wrote:hench wrote:pre-owned model s teslas can be found in the 30-40k range nowLOLOLOLOLOL. Pre-owned Tercels can be had in the 3-4k range. That's what working-class people can afford. Don't get me wrong, I can't wait until used electric cars come down to real-world prices, because I've just about had it with gasoline, but let's not pretend that they're not toys for preppy WASPs at the moment. It'll all work out in due time, I'm sure. It usually does.Not only that but electric cars are not going to save the planet or humanity. Like replace a bunch -- or even most -- of the gas cars w electric cars and keep all the congestion and sprawl and overpasses and giant anti-union capitalist firms like Tesla exploiting autoworkers to produce more elite and rarefied versions of the Toyota Camry, and it doesn't add up to much ecologically or politically. No use kidding yourself: you're not helping anyone. Public transit and rail on the other hand will be pivotal. I was listening to someone on a podcast recently talking about new battery-electric commuter trains that run on overhead lines in the city and switch to battery for inter-urban stretches. That, on a mass scale, would have an impact. And getting it in place would require a political struggle against capitalist fuckwads like Elon Musk and his underground automobile conveyor belts (make it multi-passenger and call it a subway -- I think they even exist already?). But not to derail a thread where people talk about electric cars. I also like cars and road trips and whatnot. And if you've got the money, get that new Hyundai or Nissan or whatever. For sure (especially if there's a govt rebate!). Just don't fool yourself into thinking you're doing the world a favor.

Yeah, Leaf is a really nice car although the mileage is not as good as on a Hyundai. That would be my second choice at the moment.

It's funny you mention that, I had a similar thought a few weeks ago, though I was thinking about the difficulties of electrifying the freight railroads. What a lot of liberals, and most Europeans, don't understand, is that the nature of the US rail network is fundamentally very different than most parts of the world, and electrifying it is extremely impractical in a lot of areas, which is why locomotives have to be their own power plants. But here's the thing, locomotives don't give a shit about where they get their electricity, and added weight is good for tractive effort, so developing a battery that is practical (i.e. not what they put on gensets), and could effectively replace a prime mover in terms of weight and dimensions, means that you could charge the batteries any time the locomotive is in an area with overhead wires, and leave areas where the wires are problematic as-is (yards, remote branch lines, et c). Then you just swap out the power source the next time the locomotive goes in for a rebuild, add a pantograph, and bob's your uncle. It still doesn't solve the problem of where the power comes from, mind.The biggest challenge in terms of energy, as I see it, is that we don't have ways of storing a large supply of electricity like we can do with coal and oil. If we can find a safe, efficient way of banking large amounts of electricity, then we can solve a lot of problems. One of the unfortunate realities of our time is that most of the political left (middle class neoliberals) doesn't understand the power grid or how it actually functions, and they're too arrogant to listen to working-class people who do. Most renewable sources are only good for base load, and most current peak load solutions are problematic environmentally. The rapid startup, shutdown, and load changes that peaking plants have to perform favour fossil fuels and hydro power greatly, and both of those solutions create serious environmental issues. The current idea for the future is to use solar energy to store thermal energy that can later be used to generate steam for peak load applications. It might be a workable solution, but we're talking about using a lot of intermediary steps to accomplish what we really want: create a giant, reliable, safe, rechargeable battery that will be usable long enough to justify its construction cost.The thing that pisses me off the most about mass transit in the US is that auto ownership as a good thing is a relatively recent construction that belies the fact that owning a car is a massive pain in the ass. We used to have a great interurban rail network in the US, and if you want to understand how it fell apart, all you have to do is watch Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

In my neck of the woods a Leaf with 10-15,000 miles goes for $11-13k. Most of us live in places where transit isn't really a thing, and the likelihood of have stable enough employment to be able to relocate within biking/walking distance every time you change jobs is poor. So yeah, cars solve a lot of problems, at least in the short term. Can't wait for that to not be the case anymore...but not gonna hold my breath.I was set to pull the trigger on a leaf this fall, but it looks like I'm getting bumped up a bit a work, meaning I'm gonna be driving a lot more, well beyond the typical range on many days.

I always come with that hard hitting left middle class neoliberal way of thinking just to be swayed away with the reasoned/right thought capacity.Also, left and neoliberal has as much in common as reasoned and right.Super bonus also, THIS LINK

Andrew. wrote:Just don't fool yourself into thinking you're doing the world a favor.Times that by 1,5 billion cars a year and we might be onto something.Also, Andrew, I would expect more depth from you on this topic. Just for the sheer fact that EV cars have a broader impact on this world, beyond just air pollution. No!?

I'm just waiting until I have enough money and the second-hand market becomes better established and I will retire my old car for an electric. I have been wanting to do it for years. In the meantime I'm trying to make a tank last as long as possible. It is a tiny and inconsequential thing, but I feel like shit every time I fill the car up, and so I should.I rarely have to travel far but I don't fancy having to transport a bass rig on an e-scooter.I'm also a good candidate for installing solar panels on the roof since I work from home, I'm just not a good candidate for spending tens of thousands of dollars right now.

I am the perfect candidate for a little runabout electric vehicle. I drive short distances when I drive, which is nothing like every day. I have a garage so I could have a solar panel to trickle charge it on the roof and keep it completely off the grid. Once in a while I need to drive all day, but that's rare. I haven't ever bought a new car, but if I ever do it will probably be something like the electric Smart.I think a lot of my peers could behave similarly and that would obviously be good for the rest of the world.

You could in theory run your bass rig off batteries, and fit it with a golf car chassis, and a seat. Thus enabling you to drive it like a vehicle.Let's call that option B...I don't really fancy doing 100kph down the motorway on a motorised bass rig. Nor taking the kids to school atop a motorised bass rig. I would however enjoy seeing the band's face if I arrived at setup on a motorised bass rig and just parked up in the corner.But a self-driving bass rig, now you are talking. I'll travel by scooter and the gear can make its own way home.