Hi Russ,
To address your technical queries regarding OP Systems: We chose BeOS for several reasons:
1) Stability
2) Low Incorporation Fee
3) Speed(its real time)
4) Fast bootup(RADAR boots up and is in record in under 60 seconds - this is key for people who want the feel of a tape machine - they are used to just turning on a switch and using the machine - not so with many DAW-based systems)
5) Great graphics capabilities
We initially ported over to Linux in back 1998 and found it to be very slow to boot up - well over 1 minute. Also, Linux is not a real time operating system. Since RADAR is the highest performing system on the market in terms of disk access we needed the real-time (we take direct control of the SCSI disk taking advantage of things such as "tagged command cueing" unlike DAW-based systems that rely on the operating system's file system). MAC Os, Windows, and Linux are not real time so you don't get the guaranteed minimum interupt latency that is required.
BeOS met(and still meets) all of the criterion. In fact the boys at Tascam just released their latest product, the SX-1, on BeOS. BeOS is really great as an embedded OS. We have customers that have literally had their RADAR's powered up for 2 to 3 years without a problem, using them every day.
All of the improvements to RADAR's featrue set are done in the application software so we have no need to change the OP SYS. Since Palm bought BeOS there have been no changes to the OP SYS which we are rather glad about. With many other OP System manufactuers they force you to keep upgrading to the new version at increasing costs while introducing new bugs. For us, BeOS is sort of like a potato peeler. They haven't changed the design cause it just does what its supposed to do and does it very well - so don't fix what ain't broke.
That being said we are very open to alternative suggestions. If a new operation system comes along that provides us with significant advantages for our customers we'd look at it.
As far as long term support goes. We have been manufacturing high quality audio products for just over 14 years now(started in 1989) and shipped the world's first 24 track self contained hard disk recorder in 1993. Since we have the longest track record in the industry, some pretty major customers are starting to choose RADAR as their core system for the future such as, the CBC Radio, the U.S. Navy, IMAX, major Post Production facilities and most of the high end studios around the world.
If you want to see what recent users have to say about RADAR, check out this link on our site:
http://recordingtheworld.infopop.cc/6/u ... 6896096963
RADAR 24
12Thank you Dave, Russ, and Barry!!!!
In a few fell swoops you guys addressed the similar concerns I had about the discontinuation of BEOS development and further confirmed my respect for RADAR as a digital recording medium.
Both me and my clients continue to love the RADAR format. It really is ideal as far as being a fast and reliable digital recorder. I, along with my clients who can hear it, love the sound of the RADAR. I have never once had to open the manual during a seesion and I have never once had any sort of disruption during a session due to the RADAR. I can't really say that about any other format except the Alesis HD24, and that isn't really an ideal comparison. Just as a point of reference, I have worked on most of the newer stand-alone digital recorders, as well as a few older units such as Fairlights, MDMs, software programs such as Pro Tools (don't get me started on that "demo" I witnessed again), and yes, 2" analog tape.
As a freelance music engineer, I have a choice of where to take my projects and the vast majority of them are done at RADAR-equipped studios because of the reliablity and ease of use. True, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use them, but I certainly hope that that alone wouldn't nullify my abilities as an engineer or the fact that I get ALOT of repeat business, which, in the current climate and with my demographic, would certainly drop off if my clients had to pay for 2" tape.
Keep up the great work and the great discussions! Thanks!
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
In a few fell swoops you guys addressed the similar concerns I had about the discontinuation of BEOS development and further confirmed my respect for RADAR as a digital recording medium.
Both me and my clients continue to love the RADAR format. It really is ideal as far as being a fast and reliable digital recorder. I, along with my clients who can hear it, love the sound of the RADAR. I have never once had to open the manual during a seesion and I have never once had any sort of disruption during a session due to the RADAR. I can't really say that about any other format except the Alesis HD24, and that isn't really an ideal comparison. Just as a point of reference, I have worked on most of the newer stand-alone digital recorders, as well as a few older units such as Fairlights, MDMs, software programs such as Pro Tools (don't get me started on that "demo" I witnessed again), and yes, 2" analog tape.
As a freelance music engineer, I have a choice of where to take my projects and the vast majority of them are done at RADAR-equipped studios because of the reliablity and ease of use. True, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use them, but I certainly hope that that alone wouldn't nullify my abilities as an engineer or the fact that I get ALOT of repeat business, which, in the current climate and with my demographic, would certainly drop off if my clients had to pay for 2" tape.
Keep up the great work and the great discussions! Thanks!
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
RADAR 24
13interesting discussion. thanks.
so what is the RADAR equivalent of a master tape? i read that you can 'back up' to double-sided DVDs, etc. but 'backing up' implies to me that it is a safety copy and not an actual master in some sense.
are the hard drives easily swappable? is one's 'master tape' a hard drive?
you know, what replaces the shelf of 2" 24-track reels?
i still have problems with the fact that if the data on a HD or other digital storage medium is corrupted, the master is fucked. tapes can take a lot of abuse and are a proven storage medium.
so what is the RADAR equivalent of a master tape? i read that you can 'back up' to double-sided DVDs, etc. but 'backing up' implies to me that it is a safety copy and not an actual master in some sense.
are the hard drives easily swappable? is one's 'master tape' a hard drive?
you know, what replaces the shelf of 2" 24-track reels?
i still have problems with the fact that if the data on a HD or other digital storage medium is corrupted, the master is fucked. tapes can take a lot of abuse and are a proven storage medium.
RADAR 24
15Hi Russ,
Thanks for clarification of point #1. Understood
On my comment about "sounds better" I should have been more specific in saying that RADAR's sound characteristics which are often compared to analog are certainly augmented by the fact that the noise floor is much lower with RADAR and of course there is no tape hiss whatsoever.
We are still using BeOS. Palm's decision to discontinue further development of the Operating System has not had any real impact on us. For our purposes the current OS does everything we need it to and is completely uncluttered which is key to stability. I certainly don't claim any expertise on a programming level but there are several programmers here than can much better answer your technical questions.
As regards High Quality Audio, the aquisition process is of paramount importance in order to have excellent audio product to work with. Everything you do to process that audio will affect it. As a purist I am always thrilled when a spectacular musical performance is captured in extremely high fidelity and I can listen to it without additional processing. As we know more often than not audio will be processed a little or a lot. RADAR can be used in exactly the same manner as you would a 2" Tape Machine for mixing. If preferred you can easily transfer through Analog or Digital Multitrack interface or transfer exact copies of the file via Ethernet or DVD-R/CD-R/DVD RAM to any workstation of choice. Also RADAR is often used to Master Stereo or Surround mixes onto in order to take advantage of the high quality Converters once more.
In terms of RADAR's viability over the next several years I can assure you that our strategy is the same as it has been since the beginning. We are simply trying to make the best audio recorder we possibly can. Our current series of RADAR 24 has evolved from the original Radar-1 as we always responded directly to feature requests from our customers. This has resulted in the development of the product that we have today. This approach is intended to insure that RADAR will continue to remain relevant in an ever changing world.
Cheers,
David
Thanks for clarification of point #1. Understood
On my comment about "sounds better" I should have been more specific in saying that RADAR's sound characteristics which are often compared to analog are certainly augmented by the fact that the noise floor is much lower with RADAR and of course there is no tape hiss whatsoever.
We are still using BeOS. Palm's decision to discontinue further development of the Operating System has not had any real impact on us. For our purposes the current OS does everything we need it to and is completely uncluttered which is key to stability. I certainly don't claim any expertise on a programming level but there are several programmers here than can much better answer your technical questions.
As regards High Quality Audio, the aquisition process is of paramount importance in order to have excellent audio product to work with. Everything you do to process that audio will affect it. As a purist I am always thrilled when a spectacular musical performance is captured in extremely high fidelity and I can listen to it without additional processing. As we know more often than not audio will be processed a little or a lot. RADAR can be used in exactly the same manner as you would a 2" Tape Machine for mixing. If preferred you can easily transfer through Analog or Digital Multitrack interface or transfer exact copies of the file via Ethernet or DVD-R/CD-R/DVD RAM to any workstation of choice. Also RADAR is often used to Master Stereo or Surround mixes onto in order to take advantage of the high quality Converters once more.
In terms of RADAR's viability over the next several years I can assure you that our strategy is the same as it has been since the beginning. We are simply trying to make the best audio recorder we possibly can. Our current series of RADAR 24 has evolved from the original Radar-1 as we always responded directly to feature requests from our customers. This has resulted in the development of the product that we have today. This approach is intended to insure that RADAR will continue to remain relevant in an ever changing world.
Cheers,
David
RADAR 24
16RADAR records directly to a Hard Drive. This is the equivelant of a Roll of 2" Tape with the following noteable differences:
- A roll of 2" tape costs about $200 for 15 minutes @ 30 IPS whereas a $595.00 Hard Drive gives you 9.75 hours of 24 track recording for a full track count of 24 bit 48 kHz audio and is much more easily transportable than an equivelant amount of tape.
- Information on a Hard Drive remains intact exactly as recorded except in the event of a drive failure whereas Tape degenerates every time you play it. Slight abrasion of the oxide passing over the tape head removes particles from the polyester backing with each pass. There is no way to avoid this. Exercising the tape as it simply travels the tape path between reels stresses the physical bonding of the chemical formulation to the backing and weakens it to a point where it can eventually result in audio dropouts resulting from excessive loss of magnetic material. Repeated use of any magnetic recording tape causes the medium to degenerate first in it's ability to reproduce "highs" which results in recordings sounding duller than originally captured. This phenomenon also occurrs when tapes are stored for many years while the chemical material slowly breaks down. Further to this is the fact that there are many different tape formulations and each one will result in different audio characteristics so there is less consistency than when using a digital recording medium.
RADAR Recording Drives are in removeable StorCase DE100i Carriers which are "hot-swappable". RADAR can remain powered up while you unmount a Drive, then turn the key 1/4 turn and pull the Carrier (sled) out of the receiver then put another Drive into the RADAR, turn the key to lock and enable power and then press "mount". This whole operation takes less than minute in most cases.
It is always adviseable to have more than one copy of any critical data whether it is Analog or Digital. Good practice in this regard can usually avert a disaster. It is often said that you don't have a backup until you have a minimum of 2 copies. Therefore anyone who makes a "backup" then erases the original really doesn't have a backup at all because they only have one copy.
RADAR's standard configuration includes a DVD-R/CD-R/DVD RAM Combo Drive for Backup and file sharing. We recommend DVD RAM for long term backup because it has the best archival qualities of any storage medium yet devised. These are a double layer 5" disk with the recording layer sandwiched in between for maximum physical protection of the data. These are each housed in a cartridge that further protects the disc from scratches, light sources, humidity changes, etc..
CD-R and DVD-R can be used for short term archive and file exchange with DAWs but please note that these do not have the benefit of being physically housed in a protective cartridge and are only a single layer disk with the Recording Layer bonded between the disk and the spray topcoat sealer.
There are many choices of approved tape drives for RADAR backup including Exabyte, Sony AIT, Ecrix VXA, Travan, etc. but please be aware that magnetic tape backup of any kind is subject to the degradation properties as outlined above which makes tape unacceptable to safely archive digital information for periods exceeding 10 years.
I hope you find this information helpful.
Cheers,
David
- A roll of 2" tape costs about $200 for 15 minutes @ 30 IPS whereas a $595.00 Hard Drive gives you 9.75 hours of 24 track recording for a full track count of 24 bit 48 kHz audio and is much more easily transportable than an equivelant amount of tape.
- Information on a Hard Drive remains intact exactly as recorded except in the event of a drive failure whereas Tape degenerates every time you play it. Slight abrasion of the oxide passing over the tape head removes particles from the polyester backing with each pass. There is no way to avoid this. Exercising the tape as it simply travels the tape path between reels stresses the physical bonding of the chemical formulation to the backing and weakens it to a point where it can eventually result in audio dropouts resulting from excessive loss of magnetic material. Repeated use of any magnetic recording tape causes the medium to degenerate first in it's ability to reproduce "highs" which results in recordings sounding duller than originally captured. This phenomenon also occurrs when tapes are stored for many years while the chemical material slowly breaks down. Further to this is the fact that there are many different tape formulations and each one will result in different audio characteristics so there is less consistency than when using a digital recording medium.
RADAR Recording Drives are in removeable StorCase DE100i Carriers which are "hot-swappable". RADAR can remain powered up while you unmount a Drive, then turn the key 1/4 turn and pull the Carrier (sled) out of the receiver then put another Drive into the RADAR, turn the key to lock and enable power and then press "mount". This whole operation takes less than minute in most cases.
It is always adviseable to have more than one copy of any critical data whether it is Analog or Digital. Good practice in this regard can usually avert a disaster. It is often said that you don't have a backup until you have a minimum of 2 copies. Therefore anyone who makes a "backup" then erases the original really doesn't have a backup at all because they only have one copy.
RADAR's standard configuration includes a DVD-R/CD-R/DVD RAM Combo Drive for Backup and file sharing. We recommend DVD RAM for long term backup because it has the best archival qualities of any storage medium yet devised. These are a double layer 5" disk with the recording layer sandwiched in between for maximum physical protection of the data. These are each housed in a cartridge that further protects the disc from scratches, light sources, humidity changes, etc..
CD-R and DVD-R can be used for short term archive and file exchange with DAWs but please note that these do not have the benefit of being physically housed in a protective cartridge and are only a single layer disk with the Recording Layer bonded between the disk and the spray topcoat sealer.
There are many choices of approved tape drives for RADAR backup including Exabyte, Sony AIT, Ecrix VXA, Travan, etc. but please be aware that magnetic tape backup of any kind is subject to the degradation properties as outlined above which makes tape unacceptable to safely archive digital information for periods exceeding 10 years.
I hope you find this information helpful.
Cheers,
David
RADAR 24
17>>I hope you find this information helpful.
yes, thanks
the degree to which you guys are gripped about your product is impressive
and it's good of you to take the time to answer these questions for what must be the 1,000,000th time
>>RADAR records directly to a Hard Drive. This is the equivelant of a Roll of 2" Tape with the following noteable differences:
>>- Information on a Hard Drive remains intact exactly as recorded except in the event of a drive failure whereas Tape degenerates every time you play it.
technically so, but if you are short of fleetwood mac/michael jackson/metallica 'tape exercising' territory, i don't feel this degeneration is a tremendous problem, not given the dependability of the tape format and the predicability of its failures, which inevitably hinge on poor storage or handling. hard drives can and will up and quit on a guy unpredictably, whether they've been stored/handled properly or not. tape just doesn't do that, and if it does degrade due to poor formulation etc., at least some of the audio information can usually be recovered.
>>RADAR Recording Drives are in removeable StorCase DE100i Carriers which are "hot-swappable". RADAR can remain powered up while you unmount a Drive, then turn the key 1/4 turn and pull the Carrier (sled) out of the receiver then put another Drive into the RADAR, turn the key to lock and enable power and then press "mount". This whole operation takes less than minute in most cases.
as close as one is likely to get to a 'master tape,' then
i have to say this is a crucial and great feature
>>RADAR's standard configuration includes a DVD-R/CD-R/DVD RAM Combo Drive for Backup and file sharing. We recommend DVD RAM for long term backup because it has the best archival qualities of any storage medium yet devised.
'digital storage medium,' i'll take that to mean, pursuant to comments below
>>There are many choices of approved tape drives for RADAR backup including Exabyte, Sony AIT, Ecrix VXA, Travan, etc. but please be aware that magnetic tape backup of any kind is subject to the degradation properties as outlined above which makes tape unacceptable to safely archive digital information for periods exceeding 10 years.
if i assume iZ and many others are correct and RADAR is the shit sonically, i'm still left with uneasiness about the storage format options
the degradation you mention re tape backup is the degradation of digital info, not analog sound, correct? which is why tape is not an acceptable archival format _for RADAR_. digital info needs to be right or it's wrong, whereas analog can sustain loss and still retain the essence of the program material.
fact is, magnetic tape, despite its faults, is a storage medium that has been proven over the last half-century, whereas nothing in the digital realm has that kind of a track record.
this might not mean a whole ton if we think about things in terms of our active musical careers or even our lifetimes. but when you think about the vast wealth of music that has been reissued in the last twenty years, and what similar efforts might be like in the next few decades, archival permanence takes on a crucial importance. the prospect of forever backing up master tapes is onerous....perhaps that is the only solution, however--just an aspect of the digital medium that we luddites will have to live with if we choose to adopt it.
don't get me wrong--i find it pretty exciting that someone has come up with a digital recording device that seems to get plenty of analog loyalists hot and bothered. that's why i asked about it in the first place.
yes, thanks
the degree to which you guys are gripped about your product is impressive
and it's good of you to take the time to answer these questions for what must be the 1,000,000th time
>>RADAR records directly to a Hard Drive. This is the equivelant of a Roll of 2" Tape with the following noteable differences:
>>- Information on a Hard Drive remains intact exactly as recorded except in the event of a drive failure whereas Tape degenerates every time you play it.
technically so, but if you are short of fleetwood mac/michael jackson/metallica 'tape exercising' territory, i don't feel this degeneration is a tremendous problem, not given the dependability of the tape format and the predicability of its failures, which inevitably hinge on poor storage or handling. hard drives can and will up and quit on a guy unpredictably, whether they've been stored/handled properly or not. tape just doesn't do that, and if it does degrade due to poor formulation etc., at least some of the audio information can usually be recovered.
>>RADAR Recording Drives are in removeable StorCase DE100i Carriers which are "hot-swappable". RADAR can remain powered up while you unmount a Drive, then turn the key 1/4 turn and pull the Carrier (sled) out of the receiver then put another Drive into the RADAR, turn the key to lock and enable power and then press "mount". This whole operation takes less than minute in most cases.
as close as one is likely to get to a 'master tape,' then
i have to say this is a crucial and great feature
>>RADAR's standard configuration includes a DVD-R/CD-R/DVD RAM Combo Drive for Backup and file sharing. We recommend DVD RAM for long term backup because it has the best archival qualities of any storage medium yet devised.
'digital storage medium,' i'll take that to mean, pursuant to comments below
>>There are many choices of approved tape drives for RADAR backup including Exabyte, Sony AIT, Ecrix VXA, Travan, etc. but please be aware that magnetic tape backup of any kind is subject to the degradation properties as outlined above which makes tape unacceptable to safely archive digital information for periods exceeding 10 years.
if i assume iZ and many others are correct and RADAR is the shit sonically, i'm still left with uneasiness about the storage format options
the degradation you mention re tape backup is the degradation of digital info, not analog sound, correct? which is why tape is not an acceptable archival format _for RADAR_. digital info needs to be right or it's wrong, whereas analog can sustain loss and still retain the essence of the program material.
fact is, magnetic tape, despite its faults, is a storage medium that has been proven over the last half-century, whereas nothing in the digital realm has that kind of a track record.
this might not mean a whole ton if we think about things in terms of our active musical careers or even our lifetimes. but when you think about the vast wealth of music that has been reissued in the last twenty years, and what similar efforts might be like in the next few decades, archival permanence takes on a crucial importance. the prospect of forever backing up master tapes is onerous....perhaps that is the only solution, however--just an aspect of the digital medium that we luddites will have to live with if we choose to adopt it.
don't get me wrong--i find it pretty exciting that someone has come up with a digital recording device that seems to get plenty of analog loyalists hot and bothered. that's why i asked about it in the first place.
RADAR 24
19Bob Weston wrote:What does RADAR stand for? It's capitalized, and so I assume it's an acronym.
bob
Random
Access
Digital
Audio
Recorder
This is what RADAR really iZ. If you spell or say it backwards then it becomes RADAR. I once recorded me saying the word RADAR on RADAR and then used the jog wheel to scrub it backwards and forwards and if you say it right during the recording - i.e keeping the same intonation rise/fall in your voice at the beginning and the end of the word, it indeed sounds the same in both directions.
RADAR 24
20bhenderson wrote:Random
Access
Digital
Audio
Recorder
This is what RADAR really iZ. If you spell or say it backwards then it becomes RADAR. I once recorded me saying the word RADAR on RADAR and then used the jog wheel to scrub it backwards and forwards and if you say it right during the recording - i.e keeping the same intonation rise/fall in your voice at the beginning and the end of the word, it indeed sounds the same in both directions.
The problem is that when you played it backwards, it stood for:
Recorder
Audio
Digital
Access
Random
