akosinski wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:58 pm

Curry Pervert wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 5:10 pm

Mason wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:49 am This is Charlotte Joko Beck

That sounds very similar to Eckhart Tolle's The Power Of Now.

funny, i read it and it reminded me of 'a new earth' which is his other book.

those books are very rewarding but as someone else in the thread stated, they can get very redundant.

honestly, the best i've seen it done is Mark Manson's "the subtle art of not giving a fuck" and also "everything is fucked" - both were right to the point and didn't fall into that trap of saying the same damn thing over and over. stop wasting my time, authors.

I think it's OK when zen types are repetitive. The core of zen is something we can understand when we're 10 but can be unable to put into practice even when we're 100.

I have no knowledge of the Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck (the official spelling) book, but I worry about and distrust a book that has fucked up the concept of book titles and covers throughout the entire publishing industry as seriously as this one has.

I read on the local news that a person who had a huge influence on me when I was young has died. He was a sort of punk institution in my hometown. There's been a time, long ago, when I considered him as a mentor. His band was the first band who made something like "punk" music in the area, and the only one for a long time. His culture in music was huge, in a time when having a musical culture was not such an easy, effortless task, especially in a town/region like that. I think all the kids in the area who were introduced to any kind of decent music, should thank him. I wouldn't have even been here if it wasn't for his cassettes. He was only 52. He has always been suffering from depression, and all the unhealthy habits it brings with it. I think I can say he was killed by depression.

Frankie99 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:56 pm

Mason wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:49 amPersonal context is that years ago FM Tmidgett_Archive set me down the path of half-assed zen study, and returning to it with greater interest in pandemic times has been of great help.

This is Charlotte Joko Beck; I read this as excerpted here, from her book Nothing Special.

I recently read Nothing Special, also on Tmidgett's rec, though it was through the Protonic Reversal anniversary special podcast for Firewater (Recommended, btw. Has Conan rejoined the board yet?).

I took away from the book......I dunno, less than I anticipated? But I feel like I use the lessons a lot in practice. It certainly helped me with being in the moment, etc, but the last 25% of it I kept thinking "yes, I know. You've already said this, just differently before." So I was a bit frustrated with it in that sense.

The further I get from it the more I use it, so that's probably the impact it should have, though admittedly it's only been a coupla weeks since I finished.

Hey, this is Tim. eephus is my new user name. it may have been someone else's in the old days--you snooze you lose.

"It certainly helped me with being in the moment." Yep. That's it.

The interesting thing to me about zen is...there's really nothing in particular to talk about. We can try, and if we're not "there" (or rather "here" wherever that is) it's useful to try and shoehorn it into language or another framework that we can understand as people who are struggling to get it.

But it's like trying to box up steam. I think that's where repetition comes into play. Shunryu Suzuki's stuff is extremely circular, a semantic exercise to get your brain to give up on description and exposition and explanation and just rely on your senses to feel...it.

Glad to see a couple of ya looked up that book!

Hello everyone. First post under this username (retired "Snowblinder" finally), and I apologize in advance for my intro post being such a heavy one, but here goes:

About three months ago, my partner/soulmate/bandmate of nearly eight years, and wife of nearly three, had "the talk" and eventually came to a mutual agreement that we needed to separate and file for divorce, the reason being that she wants to have children and settle near the area where we currently live. While I had never wanted kids before, at some point in our relationship the prospect of having a family with her started to sound like not such a terrible idea (if you've met her, you know she's an amazing woman and I'm sure she'd be an awesome mother), but ultimately I reverted to my original position and decided against it for numerous reasons. Not to mention that I have no desire to settle in rural Wisconsin. I realize that this is the kind of stuff you are supposed to figure out BEFORE marriage but, what can I say, we were in love. It was a mostly amicable split initially, though there have been some major hurdles between then and now. As it stands now, we have filed the paperwork and the ball is officially rolling. The handful of interactions we've had since splitting have been mostly pleasant, if not a little awkward. Anyway, I know that she grieved very strongly in the beginning while I was somehow able to keep my shit largely together. Currently it seems to have flipped, with her seeming to be totally in acceptance and at peace with the whole thing while I spend most of my time dwelling on the whole situation wishing I could make things work out, wishing that she still loved me like she used to and so on. Honestly, it's eating me from inside. I try to put on a brave face daily and get out, be among friends, attempt to live some sort of normal life as a newly single almost 41 year old man in a super strange and bizarre world, but instead mostly feel like a total failure. I often drive around aimlessly, imagining what would happen if I just swerved off of a bridge, or parked my car by the lake and just ended it all right then and there. Would any of it matter? Would she even care? Would anyone?

It's all made even harder by the fact that most of my lifelong support system of family and friends are hundreds of miles away and, in the relatively small city where I currently live, most of my friends are just her friends who I've latched onto. Not to say that a handful of them haven't been wonderful through all of this, but...ultimately, it's her town, not mine.

I don't want to alarm anyone, so I sincerely apologize for the heaviness of my post. I just need somewhere to vent (that's not the public cesspool of current social media) where people may listen and tell me that this will pass and things will get better. I'm smart enough to know that but, in this moment in time, I feel completely helpless, confused and alone.

TonyAsh wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:26 am
About three months ago, my partner/soulmate/bandmate of nearly eight years, and wife of nearly three, had "the talk" and eventually came to a mutual agreement that we needed to separate and file for divorce, the reason being that she wants to have children and settle near the area where we currently live. While I had never wanted kids before, at some point in our relationship the prospect of having a family with her started to sound like not such a terrible idea (if you've met her, you know she's an amazing woman and I'm sure she'd be an awesome mother), but ultimately I reverted to my original position and decided against it for numerous reasons. Not to mention that I have no desire to settle in rural Wisconsin. I realize that this is the kind of stuff you are supposed to figure out BEFORE marriage but, what can I say, we were in love. It was a mostly amicable split initially, though there have been some major hurdles between then and now. As it stands now, we have filed the paperwork and the ball is officially rolling. The handful of interactions we've had since splitting have been mostly pleasant, if not a little awkward. Anyway, I know that she grieved very strongly in the beginning while I was somehow able to keep my shit largely together. Currently it seems to have flipped, with her seeming to be totally in acceptance and at peace with the whole thing while I spend most of my time dwelling on the whole situation wishing I could make things work out, wishing that she still loved me like she used to and so on. Honestly, it's eating me from inside. I try to put on a brave face daily and get out, be among friends, attempt to live some sort of normal life as a newly single almost 41 year old man in a super strange and bizarre world, but instead mostly feel like a total failure. I often drive around aimlessly, imagining what would happen if I just swerved off of a bridge, or parked my car by the lake and just ended it all right then and there. Would any of it matter? Would she even care? Would anyone?

Hey Tony,

I'm so sorry to hear this. For what it's worth, I had a very similar situation come up last year, resulting in the end of a decade plus relationship with my partner/bandmate.

The most important thing I can say is that there's no reason to feel like a "failure." I remember having similar thoughts of "Man, I should have figured this stuff out years ago" - but years ago, I thought I had. In 2010, I had no interest in having kids and would say as much. As time went on, my stance on that changed - and that's fine. As another FM told me at one point "If you were the exact same person you were 10 years ago, that'd be kind of fucked up."

In your case, it seems like your stance stayed the same, but you were able to move through this critically and thoughtfully - and I'm sure that you were able to look at it through a different lens than you would have when you first got together. Also know that this could have ended in a way that had so much more resentment/anger/etc. between you and your partner. I think the saving grace for my deal was that we had been doing couples counseling for a while and were really able to work through a lot there, allowing us to really come out of this with as much respect for each other (maybe even more) than we did while we were actually in the relationship.

It's fucking hard, and it's really weird to have someone that was part of your daily life not be there anymore. Sometimes you have to "wallow in that weirdness," as another friend would say, but you'll figure out how to move through it. Know that you've got folks you can always connect with no matter what.

uglysound wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:52 pmI saw a few counselors when I was in my teens, but they were the self-important, brown shirt, asshole 70s/80s school of guys, and left me with a lasting cynicism about the idea of counseling.

What type of person is this? How do they act?

Otherwise I recognize what you say re: cynicism about therapy, as well as finding ways to manage things while not actually solving them, which isn't that good in the long term.

uglysound wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:40 pmI remember droning speeches, vague alpha machismo and little else. Seemed like the goal was always to "challenge" you, or break you like a wild horse. Could be I was an asshole teenager who was beyond talk therapy, but I suspect my judgement of the couple of them that I dealt with was somewhat on the money.

It's weird really, how you're expected to jump right into "talking about the issues" and "getting help" when the first thing should be to establish some idea of your experience of being in therapy, of your attitude toward the therapist, of all the hidden antagonisms there. That someone is resistant, even an "asshole teenager", is to be expected. Especially when you're actually seeking therapy that kind of integrity might be the only source of self-worth you have.

The above is definitely something I would bring up, should I decide to seek therapy again.

My experience is sort of on the other end of yours, my therapists have been women and they instead appeared to try a friendly, maternal type approach. Made me hate them too.

I've had mixed experiences with therapists down the years, but a lot of that can be chalked up to youthful intransigence. I definitely first entered into the process with a chip on my shoulder - "How dare this person think they can know more about me than I do?", and clamming up - rather than acknowledging the whole thing as a dialogue in which your own openness is vital to progress.

Back in my younger days, with my old man being the embodiment of all evil, you couldn't be open or show any hint of vulnerability because it would be turned on you in an instant. That takes some getting over.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:05 am I've had mixed experiences with therapists down the years, but a lot of that can be chalked up to youthful intransigence. I definitely first entered into the process with a chip on my shoulder - "How dare this person think they can know more about me than I do?", and clamming up - rather than acknowledging the whole thing as a dialogue in which your own openness is vital to progress.

Right, but this should be the first thing to be acknowledged then, yeah? Especially for a teenager it is not a dialogue on the face of it. How could it be? The therapist is an authority figure, they supposedly can do something for you that you cannot. Also they are an adult and you are a child. All this you bring into the situation.

Knowing something about the intolerant and authoritarian nature of mental care doesn't help either.

Just sayin' it's more complicated than simply petulant resistance.

By the way, something unrelated to the above.

There is a thing called "digital self-harm". I was made aware of this by a Contrapoints video. It means consistently searching out hurtful comments on the internet. Most explanations I've seen only mention comments specifically directed at you yourself, but I think it can be reasonably extended to any hurtful content. A comment directed at someone with which you identify is after all not that different from one aimed at you directly.

Being aware of this changed a lot of things about how I navigate the net and which things I place attention on. It's not possible to completely avoid of course, and you likely cannot wean yourself off of it in an instant, but it's a start.