kokorodoko wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:50 pmRight, but this should be the first thing to be acknowledged then, yeah? Especially for a teenager it is not a dialogue on the face of it. How could it be? The therapist is an authority figure, they supposedly can do something for you that you cannot. Also they are an adult and you are a child. All this you bring into the situation.

Knowing something about the intolerant and authoritarian nature of mental care doesn't help either.

Just sayin' it's more complicated than simply petulant resistance.

I don't know that a therapist can do that though. It's one of those things where the patient has to take the first step, hence those incredibly long silences when you are willing yourself not to break them.

Not sure I'd describe the nature of mental care as intolerant and authoritarian either. There are definitely lousy individuals in easily-abused positions, but the nature of the entire sphere seems to do its best with its given resources, by and large. YMMV.

Just wanted to say i'm glad to see this thread revived. Much love to all of you struggling.

I've been lucky in that I've been able to build a great rapport with my therapist. When I've felt frustrated with myself, she is the one who has helped me see that I actually have made progress, and that I'm not the same person I was 6 years ago.
I mainly struggle with anxiety, self-hatred, and a lack of confidence or belief in myself. Without her giving me perspective and tools, I don't know where I'd be. Certainly not as functional as I am today.
The pandemic didn't affect me much. I was always a homebody and being away from people was kind of a relief. What I struggle with is that my support funding has run out and they have deemed me able to work. So, I've been job hunting. And it hasn't gone well. I'm currently in a situation where, I'm considered "hired" but the business owner doesn't have the funds to pay me yet, due to the pandemic stopping business in general. Not sure what I'm going to do for money, and that is really fucking my head up. It's hard to find a job when you don't believe in yourself, or that you have any skills to offer anyone. My wife suggests I "fake it" and tell myself as much as possible that I do have things to offer and other positive stuff, even if it feels like lying.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:12 pmI don't know that a therapist can do that though. It's one of those things where the patient has to take the first step, hence those incredibly long silences when you are willing yourself not to break them.

Not sure I'd describe the nature of mental care as intolerant and authoritarian either. There are definitely lousy individuals in easily-abused positions, but the nature of the entire sphere seems to do its best with its given resources, by and large. YMMV.

Yeah I'm not sure they can either.

Hope you're right.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:05 am I've had mixed experiences with therapists down the years, but a lot of that can be chalked up to youthful intransigence. I definitely first entered into the process with a chip on my shoulder - "How dare this person think they can know more about me than I do?", and clamming up - rather than acknowledging the whole thing as a dialogue in which your own openness is vital to progress.

Back in my younger days, with my old man being the embodiment of all evil, you couldn't be open or show any hint of vulnerability because it would be turned on you in an instant. That takes some getting over.

i feel like some dad's give their son the vulcan upbringing like vunerability or emotion equals failure and it's like like telling someone they can cough but never sneeze like what that's your body and emotions you're suppressing.. so often kids are told they are good or bad when all kids are good it's behavior that's good or bad so you say "that's bad to cut in line" not like "you're bad" like this mom at trader joes saying you can tell what kids are good and she's talking about 5 year olds like how does that help a lil homie grow up with a chance .. but adults sometimes can be loved repsected and very smart about other ways they've taught you to live life so it's like we grow up and have to look back like dang that took some confusion and delayed me in life awhile lol but the important part mostly is that you feel forgiveness like poor guy had that that one wrong and i'm the evolved new and improved generation who knows better for kids today and part two of most important is that you feel it out and cry and listen to music and get it all out and then when you're exhausted from grieving you have action plan ideas for a new lifestyle that includes the healthy balance a human needs for survival like Kirk is a man's man he's not Vulcan his heart is in his chest where it belongs and he needs to cry it out prob that would be the manliest episode of star trek like a captain like a king shows a human display of emotion for all the ship to feel gratitude because its something we all understand and feel together

that whole "be a man" attitude is damaging it's like saying "don't feel" or like "be different than how you really feel" and it doesn't account for the infinite nature of the person being told not to feel

that forces communication to be backed up or funnelled through various accepted channels instead of being allowed to flow like a waterfall but you can do that for yourself with therapy opening up communication and giving you tools to be whoever you are and accept and feel happy as much as is possible

the worst thing you can do is beat yourself up and the best thing you can do is destress and give yourself a break and keep communicating

and i only got married because i didn't get murdered i had some kinda sad phase and saw a non-drinker quiet man in a lively lesbian sports bar and i'm like bring it on but he became my best friend instead and husband for awhile and now we parted ways and it wasn't a true crime lol otherwise there's always been one guy for me even during the beginning when i started dating my husband and midway through the first year you're happy to go around having someone to do fun stuff with my ma is like "you see now that you love your new boyfriend as a best friend and all that do you really think you were in love with that other guy before?" and we both started giggling because i completely switched direction and was all italian love gushing about that's the only guy i really love lol and always told guys sorry heart occupado so don't feel bad for my exhusband he didn't care about that kinda feelings if i loved somebody else he always treated it like i was talking about ghosts he didn't believe in haha guys don't care what you feel it's more company to play videogames and look cute haha jeepers i am so glad it's summer and i am free

i am so happy lately because i'm free it's the best

janeway wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:16 am that whole "be a man" attitude is damaging it's like saying "don't feel" or like "be different than how you really feel" and it doesn't account for the infinite nature of the person being told not to feel

that forces communication to be backed up or funnelled through various accepted channels instead of being allowed to flow like a waterfall but you can do that for yourself with therapy opening up communication and giving you tools to be whoever you are and accept and feel happy as much as is possible

I disagree. You can be told it's OK to feel and to grow the fuck up at the same time, and this could even be done with some humor, from the right therapist.

COVID really fucked up my son, 25. He was always a little bit of a mess, like many of us, but he kept it together, had a job, was doing well, being social with friends, and he was a very nice, considerate person. He is now in a residential rehab center for methamphetamine addiction, although now he says it's actually sex addiction and the meth was secondary. I'm told by professionals that this is not unusual, sex with meth specifically is a combo they see a lot.

It's got to be different for kids out there with porn and Tinder, other "dating" or sex apps. While I have used to former I have not used the latter. And while pornography can be bad enough, I can't imagine what the prospect of having actual sex with another person, whenever you want, following a swipe to the right does to a developing young brain.

One of the components of addiction (as opposed to mere physical dependency) is that it ruins your otherwise productive life, or something like, right? Like he (my son) says he's been a sex addict for 10 years or more. Well, OK, but guess what dude, your life didn't blow up in your face (including calling out from work, crashing your car while asleep at the wheel, starting a fire in your apartment and being evicted, then getting kicked out of another living situation-and that's what I know about) until you started doing methamphetamine.

I guess I don't really understand the sex addiction part, these days, I mean isn't swiping right just what the kids are doing these days? Is doing that every couple/three weeks a sign of addiction? Or just wanting to get laid? I ask that in all seriousness.

I hope I'm not coming across as a dick, here. But there's obviously some anger (and also sadness) I have about this. And I am talking to someone about it.

enframed wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:18 am

janeway wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:16 am that whole "be a man" attitude.. and then i said some other stuff..

I disagree. You can be told it's OK to feel and to grow the fuck up at the same time, and this could even be done with some humor, from the right therapist.

COVID really fucked up my son, 25. He was always a little bit of a mess, like many of us, but he kept it together, had a job, was doing well, being social with friends, and he was a very nice, considerate person. He is now in a residential rehab center for methamphetamine addiction, although now he says it's actually sex addiction and the meth was secondary. I'm told by professionals that this is not unusual, sex with meth specifically is a combo they see a lot.

It's got to be different for kids out there with porn and Tinder, other "dating" or sex apps. While I have used to former I have not used the latter. And while pornography can be bad enough, I can't imagine what the prospect of having actual sex with another person, whenever you want, following a swipe to the right does to a developing young brain.

One of the components of addiction (as opposed to mere physical dependency) is that it ruins your otherwise productive life, or something like, right? Like he (my son) says he's been a sex addict for 10 years or more. Well, OK, but guess what dude, your life didn't blow up in your face (including calling out from work, crashing your car while asleep at the wheel, starting a fire in your apartment and being evicted, then getting kicked out of another living situation-and that's what I know about) until you started doing methamphetamine.

I guess I don't really understand the sex addiction part, these days, I mean isn't swiping right just what the kids are doing these days? Is doing that every couple/three weeks a sign of addiction? Or just wanting to get laid? I ask that in all seriousness.

I hope I'm not coming across as a dick, here. But there's obviously some anger (and also sadness) I have about this. And I am talking to someone about it.

i completely agree about telling someone it's ok to feel and grow the eff up that's what i want lol but i was saying like some dad's grow up tough with war dad's generation and tell you that buck up without the part about it being okay to feel too son lol how can a man grow up and play guitar like james taylor or neil young with so much emotion while also only being told not to feel those kinda emotions like huh wait somebody did that math wrong but you can't correct your dad's math because it's like he's the adult you respect and you're good and follow rules so somewhere this star trek logic loop makes life alittle more difficult that you fix later and then live the res rod your life happier and happier with each year i promise

and you're not coming across as anything but genuine because this is something you're dealing with and i understand less than you because i've never used dating apps or swiped a picture because when i found out what that was i'm like that's training your eyes to judge like a quickdraw cowboy at something so .. it's spazzy and how do people date guys on dating apps and then oh what like he's not checking notifications and you assume he deletes the account because you're together? these tickle me elmo kids grew up and are click spazzes but i do my part to make real life better .. hopefully the next decade will be kids like burning their phone bras and saying staring at screens is for old people millennials lol there will be another woodstock and kids playing their own instruments again because everyone's too boring with technology the shock value is sparking out and people miss steak behind the sizzle

anyways my heart goes out to your son for hopefully overcoming sex addition and meth because it seema like he's been able to hold down a good life before and with good support i hope you help him get there .. i pray to God and use lifestyle habits like not caring about my phone but therapist experts prob have tools to help with blocking addiction apps and really it seems like lifestyle you gotta take that part of your brain and turn it into running marathons or gardening keep busy and physically active and tire yourself out no time to think or feel constant runner's high like taking an active dog for consistent routine runs but that's the best i can come up with for the right answer lol

goodluck to all of you guys you sometimes have sad sweet emojis that i wish felt better.. where's that recipe for that smash burger that everyone loved..

enframed wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:18 amI ask that in all seriousness.

Sounds like you're asking if sex addiction is actually real. Which a non-professional like me obviously cannot answer. However yeah if someone said they had a sex addiction and they added "and I also do meth every time I have sex", I would definitely consider the latter as the more serious worry.

I'm not down with the Tinder and I don't know about the different experiences of hookup culture but before Tinder (and outside of it) people go to clubs and bars to get laid and I used to know people who did that basically every week. Also it's worth remembering that while I don't know the number of people who use Tinder they are a subset of the population, and the people who use it successfully (so successfully that they might actually develop a sex addiction from it) is a subset of this group. So how much it tangibly affects young people's romance habits and sexual psyches seems uncertain.

I don't mean to be a total relativist here, I would be interested in looking into this myself. I'm just a natural skeptic when it comes to things like this that are so connected to fears about new technology. You hear people say the silliest things about Tinder, like "oh it makes people only care about looks", like yeah dude isn't that how it always works? You see someone you think is pretty and then you go say hi. Then we can talk about beauty standards and what erotic desire actually is (is it really "your own"?) and so on but you know

eh I can elaborate but I just wanna finish the post now so I can go do the laundry

kokorodoko wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:28 pm

enframed wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:18 amI ask that in all seriousness.

Sounds like you're asking if sex addiction is actually real. Which a non-professional like me obviously cannot answer. However yeah if someone said they had a sex addiction and they added "and I also do meth every time I have sex", I would definitely consider the latter as the more serious worry.

I'm not down with the Tinder and I don't know about the different experiences of hookup culture but before Tinder (and outside of it) people go to clubs and bars to get laid and I used to know people who did that basically every week. Also it's worth remembering that while I don't know the number of people who use Tinder they are a subset of the population, and the people who use it successfully (so successfully that they might actually develop a sex addiction from it) is a subset of this group. So how much it tangibly affects young people's romance habits and sexual psyches seems uncertain.

I don't mean to be a total relativist here, I would be interested in looking into this myself. I'm just a natural skeptic when it comes to things like this that are so connected to fears about new technology. You hear people say the silliest things about Tinder, like "oh it makes people only care about looks", like yeah dude isn't that how it always works? You see someone you think is pretty and then you go say hi. Then we can talk about beauty standards and what erotic desire actually is (is it really "your own"?) and so on but you know

eh I can elaborate but I just wanna finish the post now so I can go do the laundry

Not asking if it's real. I'm sure sex addiction is real.

Indeed, people used to do this in bars, or at the gym, singles adds in print newspapers, craigslist, wherever.

I guess I'm suggesting that in light of new technologies (Tinder, et al) what constitutes addiction in this way perhaps needs to be re-evaluated. Like I wrote above, one of the textbook components of addiction is that it has a detrimental effect on one's life. If hooking up every couple of weeks doesn't prove detrimental in any way, then is it addiction? Now if it's all you think about and you stop going to work, being social with actual friends, &c, then sure.