Well, which one is it?

Super tough one. I totally love every single record they released.

I Think I'd go with The argument. I love the sound of it and has some of my phave songs from them.

Might change my mind tomorrow though.

End Hits, it's the most complete and most accomplished IMO, touches on all bases of what they did best (it has their strongest "studio as instrument" moments), and the writing is great. I thought The Argument was a step backwards.

Bernardo wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:39 pm I thought The Argument was a step backwards.

I've never understood your reasoning on this. It's the one I'm going to most of late.


I voted Killtaker. As I'm sure I did on the old place. First one I bought when it was new, I'd already heard everything, but Killtaker pushed me over, into a new world on so many levels, and continues to fertilize that soil.

That said, they never made a bad album.

PASTA wrote: [quote=Bernardo post_id=779897 time=<a href="tel:1628617146">1628617146</a> user_id=40109]
I thought The Argument was a step backwards.

I've never understood your reasoning on this. It's the one I'm going to most of late.
[/quote]

I was pretty underwhelmed when it came out. I tried listening to it a couple months ago thinking I needed to reassess but it was really even worse than I remember. I really don’t think there’s a consistent threat between that record and the earlier ones. It felt kind of soft and Indie rock to me. I really love the rest of the discography. I voted kill taker. I voted killtaker but who knows it probably depends on the day. I almost voted steady diet and went the hot take route.

PASTA wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:32 pm

Bernardo wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:39 pm I thought The Argument was a step backwards.

I've never understood your reasoning on this.

It's the one record of theirs that I thought at the time already that sounded like it could have been made by a band they influenced. I'll say I was not that pissed they stopped at that point, felt like a dead end to me (and they'd done plenty already).

With Killtaker they started getting into the sound aspect of it more aggressively, but for that album it was still very short bits and pieces, like the intro, it was not as literal a record as the first few releases, but tentative in that explorational aspect.

With Red Medicine they pushed it further, but at the same time some of it sounds very indebted to, say, dub, with the very specific delays and general signifiers, as opposed to applying the spirit of sonic exploration to their music it still sounds like paying homage to something else ("look, dub part!").

With End Hits they blew it wide open, or at least as open as they went (it was Fugazi, not This Heat), a lot of parts on the record really sound like they developed their music to a certain point and just spent time revelling in the sound of it, the texture, the space, etc, the same way, say, Can did in the past, but not aping Can, nor krautrock, nor jamaican dub, nor.... And the record runs the whole gamut, from Five Corporations, which is fully written and compact and almost like a hardcore song, to Recap Modotti, where the latter half of the track is a perfect example of how they became so adept at listening to what was going on and feeding off of it, as opposed to working with structure, parts, etc. I think Break alone is incredible, they really had full command of being a band at that point, it has space, dynamics and it's also intense at the same time, No Surprise is also great for that.

The Argument sounds to me like they scaled all of that back and just made tasteful emo-ish indie rock, Fugazi style. It has some nice enough sonic touches, but they didn't seem to be REALLY going for it on all cylinders like they always had with each successive release, the use of sound was mostly cosmetic, as opposed to structural. I haven't listened to it in ages to comment further, but that's how I felt at the time (I did listen to it a whole lot when it came out), and going back to it I never changed my mind.

I'd go along with much of that. End Hits wins out for me these days.

Must say that the inicial impact of Kill taker is unforgettable.

Break could be my favorite opener of theirs.

Every album is a winner.

In on the Killtaker holds up best for me, I think it's their strongest set of songs back to front. The last four songs are devastating.

The earlier stuff seems more hit and miss as I get older. There are still some songs that still move me like little else ('Shut the Door'), but they're interspersed with some more awkward moments.

I was never really convinced when they wandered into more experimental territories. IMO it's a slight but steady downward slide from an admittedly very high peak of Killtaker where they injected increasing amounts of mid/ late-90s artiness (which they do well but not in a particularly unique way) into a brilliant band who didn't need to resort to such obviously middlebrow tactics up until that point. Agree w/ Benardo that The Argument is bordering on faceless.

I have an admin day so I'll give End Hits another whirl as I potter around, I never got into that one.

I love all of their records, and End Hits is probably my favorite if I have to choose (as was stated earlier, it's so fully realized, a showcase of their diverse strengths), but The Argument is fantastic. The one thing I notice while listening is that the Guy to Ian shift can sound uneven, almost awkward at times. I feel like Guy (and Joe!) kept getting better and better as singers and songwriters and Ian...well...he just belts it out like he always had. To me, that's the only part of The Argument that gets a little clunky. I think it was pretty bold of them to step back from "the rock" and just focus on the songs. There are still lots of great rock moments on that album, but I think the strongest songs are the ones where they untethered themselves from the hard edge to make something really original. I love that they were still exploring new territory right up to the end (?). The string outro from Strangelight is a good example. I love that song. The Kill is an excellent Joe song. Full disclosure fucking rocks. Oh and Nightshop are great too. Guy is just fucking on fire on that album; his vocal delivery is fantastic and his song contributions are among his best.

Hello Morning from the 7" that came out at the same time as The Argument is also one of my favorites. That song is a monster and a mess and it shreds.