akosinski wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:48 pm

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:26 pm Welcome to the PRF. I'm getting pushback because
-I dare to ask what the endgame is
-I have some understanding of the minority(?) side's argument
-we like to argue

you're getting pushback because you are the most tiresome devils advocate for every single topic.

i'm just asking questions here, man!

fucking awful.

Do you ever ask yourself why I'm only one asking questions? (no, that would be technically impossible.)
"Devils advocate," like i am misrepresenting myself? No, this is not a game to me. There is a separate forum for that now.
and I KNOW I haven't said anything that could be considered remotely controversial anywhere outside twitter or here i guess (lately on this topic).

If Pro-vaccine + Anti-Mandates = Devils advocate then that's about 40% of the country.
But Jason and I were the only ones who drew clear lines so I'm not totally clear what we disagree on.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:55 pm

akosinski wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:48 pm

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:26 pm Welcome to the PRF. I'm getting pushback because
-I dare to ask what the endgame is
-I have some understanding of the minority(?) side's argument
-we like to argue

you're getting pushback because you are the most tiresome devils advocate for every single topic.

i'm just asking questions here, man!

fucking awful.

Do you ever ask yourself why I'm only one asking questions? (no, that would be technically impossible.)
"Devils advocate," like i am misrepresenting myself? No, this is not a game to me. There is a separate forum for that now.
and I KNOW I haven't said anything that could be considered remotely controversial anywhere outside twitter or here i guess (lately on this topic).

You’re confusing “mandate” with a loss of privilege. Climb down off that cross.

Do you consider allowing businesses to exclude the unvaccinated (both as customers and employees) to be a 'vaccination mandate'? Because it's fucking not. Forcing them to allow anti vax slime into their establishment is the mandate. I know VERY few people who advocate actual forced vaccination. People are free to be fucking morons, they just have to be prepared to be excluded from activities in which rational people get to participate. Life is full of choices, I know it's hard!

djimbe wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:07 pm My employer is offering incentives to get the shot. I work for the largest flat rolled steel producer in the US. There's maybe 30 different facilities in the US and the HMFIC has a challenge out there by facility. Every employee at facilities that achieve 75% - 84.9% vax by August 21 get a $1500 cash bonus. Over 85% gets you $3000. My facility with about 500 employees is currently at 48% and hasn't changed much at all since the challenge began.

The HMFIC (he's Chairman of the Board, President, and CEO) has sweetened the pot. Now anyone who is fully vaxxed or has at least 1 shot by Aug. 21 will receive a $1500 cash bonus. Any facility that exceeds 75% vaxxed will get those vaxxed at the facility $3000. Even with this added incentive, my facility is only at 51%.

Also, those of us who are salaried employees (like me) are "at will" employees. I can legally be fired at any time of any day for any reason, or for no reason at all. Including whether or not I've been vaccinated. There are unvaxxed salaried people here who have been very pointedly reminded of that fact...

jeff fox wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:52 am Do you consider allowing businesses to exclude the unvaccinated (both as customers and employees) to be a 'vaccination mandate'? Because it's fucking not. Forcing them to allow anti vax slime into their establishment is the mandate. I know VERY few people who advocate actual forced vaccination. People are free to be fucking morons, they just have to be prepared to be excluded from activities in which rational people get to participate. Life is full of choices, I know it's hard!

Private businesses can require masks and vaccines if they want to be the police. I’m fine with that too.

The Forced vax advocates are more numerous than you think. Watch where this goes.

jason from volo wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:57 am

jeff fox wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:52 am anti vax slime fucking morons

I am vaccinated, but I don't call those who respect the FDA approval process and are waiting for general approval before they get vaccinated to be "slime" or "fucking morons".

You honestly believe the protesters wearing yellow stars outside of government buildings/schools are holding out for that?

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:33 am

jeff fox wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:52 am Do you consider allowing businesses to exclude the unvaccinated (both as customers and employees) to be a 'vaccination mandate'? Because it's fucking not. Forcing them to allow anti vax slime into their establishment is the mandate. I know VERY few people who advocate actual forced vaccination. People are free to be fucking morons, they just have to be prepared to be excluded from activities in which rational people get to participate. Life is full of choices, I know it's hard!

Private businesses can require masks and vaccines if they want to be the police. I’m fine with that too.

The Forced vax advocates are more numerous than you think. Watch where this goes.

the good news for you is that once we are all in the camps, you can annoy everyone there with "i told you so!" - it will cheer you up, i promise.

akosinski wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:26 am

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:33 am

jeff fox wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:52 am Do you consider allowing businesses to exclude the unvaccinated (both as customers and employees) to be a 'vaccination mandate'? Because it's fucking not. Forcing them to allow anti vax slime into their establishment is the mandate. I know VERY few people who advocate actual forced vaccination. People are free to be fucking morons, they just have to be prepared to be excluded from activities in which rational people get to participate. Life is full of choices, I know it's hard!

Private businesses can require masks and vaccines if they want to be the police. I’m fine with that too.

The Forced vax advocates are more numerous than you think. Watch where this goes.

the good news for you is that once we are all in the camps, you can annoy everyone there with "i told you so!" - it will cheer you up, i promise.

come on. i have avoided that rhetoric on purpose and you (should) know it. pin that shit on someone else.
i am saying that people are searching for easy answers after 18 months of this bullshit and they are willing to change their minds on previously hard held positions if they can be convinced it will save enough lives.

jason from volo wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:43 am There are a substantial amount of people in both groups (group #1: anti-vax because it's my body and FU. group #2: waiting for approval process).

It's unknown to me if and how much overlap there is between the two groups, but I suspect you are correct in implying that there isn't much if any.

So, fine, if we're just referring to the folks in group #1, have at it. I offer no defense of them.

You forgot group #3 - there's chips in the vaccines so they can track everybody/Bill Gates is going to kill us off/it's a communist plot/the great reset/soros/trump will be back in office on 9/9/99 etc.