djimbe wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:48 pm

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:56 pm Zero COVID is not the goal. No need to treat kids as vectors of disease in most areas. The psychological damage is a bigger concern.

Like others, calling bullshit on this whole 'psych damage from wearing a mask' trope. My kids are 6 1/2 and 8 and wear masks on the bus to and from school and in the classroom and they LIKE it that way. They know it sucks because they live it every day, but they see it as how they can actually be in class where they love to be, not in front of some damn screen. Screens are the psych damaging devise, not a bit of cloth.

I've been hyping my employer and how they are offering cash incentives to get the shot. I won't know until tomorrow, but it seemed at the end of the day Friday that we were actually going to get across the 75% threshold of our plant's population to get those of us vaxxed $3000. The pressure applied at the end to un vaxxed was intense, I'm told by those that endured it. The window closed on Saturday the 21st. My prediction is that on Monday the 23rd, all un-vaxxed salaried employees that can't show a medical reason for not getting the shot will be given to the end of September to start the vaccination process (with no bonus applied) or be told to find employment elsewhere...

.

If nearly 75% of your plant is vaccinated, why would the remaining 25% be fired for not vaccinating? I get certain fields mandating all employees to be vaccinated and in your case, I get why you'd want to reach at least 75% (lots of people milling about in a semi closed environment). But beyond that, what is the actual risk of keeping the 25% unvaccinated on board? Healthcare liability?

pater_toma wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:59 am If nearly 75% of your plant is vaccinated, why would the remaining 25% be fired for not vaccinating? I get certain fields mandating all employees to be vaccinated and in your case, I get why you'd want to reach at least 75% (lots of people milling about in a semi closed environment). But beyond that, what is the actual risk of keeping the 25% unvaccinated on board? Healthcare liability?

I'd like to put it another way. What makes that 25% so special that they don't need to help carry the burden of this nightmare?

It's ridiculous.

So it's a moral liability on top of the countless other obvious reasons you're being coy about.

m3kcomp wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:26 am

pater_toma wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:59 am If nearly 75% of your plant is vaccinated, why would the remaining 25% be fired for not vaccinating? I get certain fields mandating all employees to be vaccinated and in your case, I get why you'd want to reach at least 75% (lots of people milling about in a semi closed environment). But beyond that, what is the actual risk of keeping the 25% unvaccinated on board? Healthcare liability?

I'd like to put it another way. What makes that 25% so special that they don't need to help carry the burden of this nightmare?

It's ridiculous.

So it's a moral liability on top of the countless other obvious reasons you're being coy about.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to see where the line of practical solutions ends and irrational punishments begin. If the risks of keeping them around are obvious, they are not obvious to me so please spell them out. I know that many get elated when an evil "anti-vaxxer" gets sick or dies or loses their job but at some point people have to loosen from that mentality and point out when things stop making sense.

pater_toma wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:59 am
If nearly 75% of your plant is vaccinated, why would the remaining 25% be fired for not vaccinating? I get certain fields mandating all employees to be vaccinated and in your case, I get why you'd want to reach at least 75% (lots of people milling about in a semi closed environment). But beyond that, what is the actual risk of keeping the 25% unvaccinated on board? Healthcare liability?

More than likely, yes. My employer has well over 100K direct employees and at least half again as many regular contractors working in about 30 different facilities in at least a dozen states. Steel manufacturing is incredibly dangerous even without the affects of the pandemic. Anything that lowers healthcare costs for the Corporation is a focus. As a supplier, we've taken a beating the past year and half because so many of our most lucrative customers have had to curtail operations due to the pandemic and the supply chain disruptions it has brought. Dude in charge is tired of it and sees vaccination as a way to keep HIS factories safe, HIS employees healthy, and HIS bottom line intact. He also sees himself as a principle leader in our industry, which he should given he leads the largest flat rolled steel operation in the US. This is not only a health and wellness thing for him, it's capital L Leadership that he wants to promote not only for the steel business, but for industry as a whole, that he needs to be healthy so he can sell them steel. He made a hell of a play offering the incentive he did to so many potential recipients. If 75% of the company is 75,000 people and each gets $3000 for being vaxxed, that's $255 million dollars. After that kind of payout, there is going to be very little sympathy for those that don't comply.

Those represented by the USWA probably don't have anything to worry about regarding their employment going forward. But us salaried folks? Again, we're all at will employees and can be fired at any time of any day for any reason or no reason at all. Failing to follow the wishes of the Boss is a good way to get your future freed up for you.

pater_toma wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:48 am

m3kcomp wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:26 am

pater_toma wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:59 am If nearly 75% of your plant is vaccinated, why would the remaining 25% be fired for not vaccinating? I get certain fields mandating all employees to be vaccinated and in your case, I get why you'd want to reach at least 75% (lots of people milling about in a semi closed environment). But beyond that, what is the actual risk of keeping the 25% unvaccinated on board? Healthcare liability?

I'd like to put it another way. What makes that 25% so special that they don't need to help carry the burden of this nightmare?

It's ridiculous.

So it's a moral liability on top of the countless other obvious reasons you're being coy about.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to see where the line of practical solutions ends and irrational punishments begin. If the risks of keeping them around are obvious, they are not obvious to me so please spell them out. I know that many get elated when an evil "anti-vaxxer" gets sick or dies or loses their job but at some point people have to loosen from that mentality and point out when things stop making sense.

Not trying to start an argument either, it's a discussion. I repeat the question: Why do the 25% not need to help carry the (considerable) load?

The answer to that is as elusive to me as you claim the reasons for "irrational punishments" are.

Eventually almost every one of those 25% will end up vaccinated, so what's the point of fighting this? It's childish, irresponsible and dangerous. Anyone who thinks otherwise is on the wrong side of where this is clearly headed. It's going to be harder and harder to have the "freedom" these people are screaming about. Call it whatever you want to, everybody's still going to have to take their medicine.

This is twenty-two pages deep now, which is bewildering, so let's knock it back on track.

There are some people who, for various health reasons, cannot have the vaccine. They get a pass.

Otherwise, if you are refusing to have the vaccine, you are a cunt.

That's that.

And...done.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... a-approval

zorg wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:23 am my only point is that you can be both a responsible citizen, and approach the kids in masks thing pragmatically, rather than the usual Hatfields vs McCoys horseshit.

Being pragmatic about masking kids only works in if everyone is a responsible citizen. I am happy to hear that things have worked out well in Denmark (seriously, near the point of envy); however your experience has very little in common with much of the US. I presume you don’t have to worry much about your neighbors or those in your community, like my Q-loving Nextdoor neighbor, or the Q-loving parents of the kid on my son’s tee-ball team, or my coworker who is retiring early because we reinstated our indoor masking policy at the office. I don’t trust these people, and do what I can to avoid them, but when my kid is at school with the children of people who behave like this, there’s nothing my wife and I can do except attempt to mitigate it to the best of our ability.

Adam P wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:56 am

zorg wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:23 am my only point is that you can be both a responsible citizen, and approach the kids in masks thing pragmatically, rather than the usual Hatfields vs McCoys horseshit.

Being pragmatic about masking kids only works in if everyone is a responsible citizen. I am happy to hear that things have worked out well in Denmark (seriously, near the point of envy); however your experience has very little in common with much of the US. I presume you don’t have to worry much about your neighbors or those in your community, like my Q-loving Nextdoor neighbor, or the Q-loving parents of the kid on my son’s tee-ball team, or my coworker who is retiring early because we reinstated our indoor masking policy at the office. I don’t trust these people, and do what I can to avoid them, but when my kid is at school with the children of people who behave like this, there’s nothing my wife and I can do except attempt to mitigate it to the best of our ability.

And on top of that, being a Browns fan. Man, I feel your pain.

kicker_of_elves wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:08 am
And on top of that, being a Browns fan. Man, I feel your pain.

Only a Browns fan can feel a Browns fans pain. If you didn't suffer through the Fumble, the Drive, the Move, The NON-EXISTANT years
Derek Anderson, Tim MOTHERFUCKING TEBOW. While watching the Steelers AND Ravens win Super Bowls, you don't GET IT MAN.