Wood Goblin wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:05 am I think some of those idiots have been expecting to find the streets teeming with angry, defiant vax-dodgers, only to see that most of their peers are finally accepting reality and the hold-outs are numbering in the mere dozens.

The health care union local I work with has 14,000+ members. Since the vax or regular-test mandate came into effect for them Monday, 17 are off on unpaid leave. The employer will release them for good in a month or so by the looks of it if they haven't reconsidered their stance by then.

jason from volo wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:01 pm
Wow, that's amazingly VERY few (0.001%). Seems like business-driven mandates may be making a big difference as people would rather stay employed...

They have a choice here to get a nasal swab test every 48 hrs if they aren't vaccinated. I'm sure that's fun. Other provinces the regular testing isn't an option. It's vax or goodbye. There are hundreds of workers in the local who are doing the testing instead of vaccination, fwiw.

10/26
Dr Cody Meissner (FDA advisor): We don't know the side effects... It won't prevent infection... This vaccine should be available to eager parents with concerns but I'm worried if we say yes then states are going to mandate this vaccine to go to school and I don't agree with that... until we get more info.

FDA approves it anyway.

10/27

NYT wrote:Public school students in Oakland, Calif., who are 12 or older and have not been vaccinated against Covid-19 by January will either be transferred to an independent-study school or dropped from enrollment entirely, under a plan the district’s Board of Education approved on Wednesday.

I wish I could feign surprise.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:39 pm 10/26
Dr Cody Meissner (FDA advisor): We don't know the side effects... It won't prevent infection... This vaccine should be available to eager parents with concerns but I'm worried if we say yes then states are going to mandate this vaccine to go to school and I don't agree with that... until we get more info.

FDA approves it anyway.

10/27

NYT wrote:Public school students in Oakland, Calif., who are 12 or older and have not been vaccinated against Covid-19 by January will either be transferred to an independent-study school or dropped from enrollment entirely, under a plan the district’s Board of Education approved on Wednesday.

I wish I could feign surprise.

From Meissner's Tufts webpage:
"Every human activity from riding in a car to eating an egg carries some risk. There is no such thing as a risk free activity. The risks associated with immunization are either so minor (sore arm) or so rare (seizure), they are far outweighed by the lives saved and the illness prevented by immunization. Do the benefits of avoiding infection outweigh the potential side effects? Yes. For each vaccine, the benefit clearly outweighs the risks. "

"The following immunizations are recommended for all children in the United States:

hepatitis A,
hepatitis B,
rotavirus,
diphtheria,
tetanus,
pertussis,
Haemophilus influenzae type b,
pneumococcal,
poliovirus,
influenza,
measles,
mumps,
rubella,
chickenpox,
meningococcal
HPV"

If he's good with these other vaccinations, most of which are already mandated by school districts for registration, and carry far more risks than any of the mRNA vaccines that have been given to almost a half-billion people already,.

Nice way to cherry-pick the doctor's quote too: The full text: “I’m just worried that if we say yes, that the states are going to mandate administration of this vaccine to children in order to go to school, and I do not agree with that,” committee member Dr. Cody Meissner said. “I think that would be an error at this time until we get more information about the safety.”

The more information he's looking for are instances of myocarditis and pericarditis, which are rare instances of inflammation in young males that have been given the vaccine. His hesitation being that the occurrence of these instances (less than 1:100,000) in the general population have been far rarer than the relatively small study sample of 4,500 children in the 5-11 age range.

When you apply this specificity to the "more information about the safety" it becomes apparent the concern is very small and limited in scope.

Stop trying to sow more doubt than is warranted by the actual concern expressed by the professionals, this kind of disingenuousness is far more dangerous to society than the vaccine.

Geiginni wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:49 pmStop trying to sow more doubt than is warranted by the actual concern expressed by the professionals, this kind of disingenuousness is far more dangerous to society than the vaccine.

dude you missed my point again. that's not what i'm trying to do that at all. and everything you said is correct about cody. he is in favor of vaccinating babies against hep b. my point is that if even he is against mandates (which he clearly said, i'm not cherry picking), then oakland has gone crazy. but again, not surprised about oakland.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:58 pm

Geiginni wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:49 pmStop trying to sow more doubt than is warranted by the actual concern expressed by the professionals, this kind of disingenuousness is far more dangerous to society than the vaccine.

dude you missed my point again. that's not what i'm trying to do that at all. and everything you said is correct about cody. he is in favor of vaccinating babies against hep b. my point is that if even he is against mandates (which he clearly said, i'm not cherry picking), then oakland has gone crazy. but again, not surprised about oakland.

Perhaps I'm being dense here, but given the politicization of everything these days, I can only assume that your being against mandates is en-toto, and not being against mandates until the data sample pool is sufficiently large to have more confidence in the lack of side-effects in that age group.

Assuming that in six months a million children aged 5-11 have been voluntarily vaccinated and no appreciable instances of myocarditis or pericarditis come to light, are you saying you would not be against vaccination mandates that align with the other already mandated vaccines? Or am I to assume you're against vaccination mandates prima facie?

Geiginni wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:11 pm

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:58 pm

Geiginni wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:49 pmStop trying to sow more doubt than is warranted by the actual concern expressed by the professionals, this kind of disingenuousness is far more dangerous to society than the vaccine.

dude you missed my point again. that's not what i'm trying to do that at all. and everything you said is correct about cody. he is in favor of vaccinating babies against hep b. my point is that if even he is against mandates (which he clearly said, i'm not cherry picking), then oakland has gone crazy. but again, not surprised about oakland.

Perhaps I'm being dense here, but given the politicization of everything these days, I can only assume that your being against mandates is en-toto, and not being against mandates until the data sample pool is sufficiently large to have more confidence in the lack of side-effects in that age group.

Assuming that in six months a million children aged 5-11 have been voluntarily vaccinated and no appreciable instances of myocarditis or pericarditis come to light, are you saying you would not be against vaccination mandates that align with the other already mandated vaccines? Or am I to assume you're against vaccination mandates prima facie?

no, your question is fair. i have not (here anyway) come out with a bold declaration against mandates and who should be exempt. i have my suspicion that the religious exemption is being abused but i can also sympathize with those who fear giving up control of their bodily autonomy. they aren't used to that, unless they are in the military or live in a militaristic regime. it's a new time with new questions being forced on us. forcing it on children who have no choice when the side effects will not be known for years is immoral. but there is so little consequence for the bureaucrat making that choice. the flint water crisis is all the evidence you need of how little the government cares about long term side effects. they will just do whatever their constituents want today, and that is what leads to the politicization you mentioned. i guess my position is best summed up: take a deep breath and let the data play out.

I saw a group of anti-vaxxers protesting the mandate near work today. Typical old, shitty white men who would have been wiped out were it not for all the vaccinated.

Maybe they’re not anti vax. Maybe they just want the buses on the road and the planes in the air. Maybe they are vaccinated. Maybe they would have not been wiped out because protesting is a safe activity. Maybe they already got infected. Who knows?

Eh, they all had the "don't give up freedom for safety" sloganeering on their signs.