I'll give him a N/C overall, though his work has lost its appeal on me (it started with Moonrise Kingdom). Bottle Rocket and The Royal Tennenbaums are my favorites, though I should rewatch Rushmore, haven't seen it since it first came out.

I definitely get if his movies are not someone's thing but I feel like dismissing all of his stuff as solely twee affectation is lazy. Deciding to make grand declarations about a director after watching only one of his movies is a funny bit though. Definitely NC even if I don't love everything he's done.

Happens from time to time that I'll see something that grates on me so hard it makes me completely want to avoid the director's work, especially if it all seems to be in a similar vein. I never watched another Zack Snyder film after 300, and I feel confident I made the right call there. I was done with Tarantino's juvenile bullshit after Kill Bill. I'm not a film critic, I don't need to keep an open mind about these guys. Life is short.

If you feel like there might be something worthwhile in watching more Wes Anderson films, that's fine. But do you think there are any Wes Anderson film that people who hate Wes Anderson films might like? I'm guessing if anything it would be the early stuff because he seems like one of those directors like Tarantino or Tim Burton who gradually became trapped in a prison of their own schtick.

Could be I'm wrong. I'd rather discuss it than watch another one.

^ I think the ability of a Wes Anderson film to diverge from what made you hate Fantastic Mr. Fox, depends specifically on why you hated it.

If you can't stand a movie that is interested in showing you that it's a movie with no pretense towards naturalism, or if you bristle at meticulously constructed set piece transitions, then yeah, don't bother. But if there was something about character, conflict, or theme that rubbed you the wrong way, he might pull you in with another film.

What I think it is that bugs me is when I get the feeling that a director is more concerned with showing off their signature moves than doing what would best serve the the story. Every time they do a quirky directorial move it creates distance between the viewer and the action. Which might be great if it's done in a considered way but not if you do it all the time because that's your quirk.

It didn't help that Fantastic Mr Fox was a boring story with irritating characters and dull talky scenes, emotionally flat, unengaging story, no tension, George Clooney. It had plenty of problems; no doubt he's made films with better scripts and fewer George Clooneys. But I also don't think that's entirely an accident, I felt like Wes Anderson was too busy being clever to remember to make his movie not suck and that might be a recurring problem.

The filmic equivalent of macrame.

Anthony Flack wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:55 pm What I think it is that bugs me is when I get the feeling that a director is more concerned with showing off their signature moves than doing what would best serve the the story. Every time they do a quirky directorial move it creates distance between the viewer and the action. Which might be great if it's done in a considered way but not if you do it all the time because that's your quirk.

It didn't help that Fantastic Mr Fox was a boring story with irritating characters and dull talky scenes, emotionally flat, unengaging story, no tension, George Clooney. It had plenty of problems; no doubt he's made films with better scripts and fewer George Clooneys. But I also don't think that's entirely an accident, I felt like Wes Anderson was too busy being clever to remember to make his movie not suck and that might be a recurring problem.

I see now why you included Tarantino in your original comments. Both filmmakers are first and foremost cinephiles who will sprinkle in cinematographic winks to some of their favorite films in their shot framing and have a way of keeping you aware they're telling you the story even though you never see them in the director's chair. It's cleverness and technique being too apparent that distracts you.

I was watching another film essay by the guy who made the one I put at the top of this thread, and he was talking about Lynch (who should probably get a C/NC thread). He challenged the viewer to ponder if we hold film to different narrative standards than other art forms, and if we should. So I guess that makes me wonder if a meta-fiction that breaks the 4th wall to ask about the reliability of narrators, or if a song centers on a compositional trick (I'm thinking Jim O'Rourke's Bad Timing, or a Shellac song like "Be Prepared") has the same effect as a film that derives its appeal from the bluntness of its craft at the cost of its immersiveness.

Anthony Flack wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:37 pm Happens from time to time that I'll see something that grates on me so hard it makes me completely want to avoid the director's work, especially if it all seems to be in a similar vein. I never watched another Zack Snyder film after 300, and I feel confident I made the right call there. I was done with Tarantino's juvenile bullshit after Kill Bill. I'm not a film critic, I don't need to keep an open mind about these guys. Life is short.

If you feel like there might be something worthwhile in watching more Wes Anderson films, that's fine. But do you think there are any Wes Anderson film that people who hate Wes Anderson films might like? I'm guessing if anything it would be the early stuff because he seems like one of those directors like Tarantino or Tim Burton who gradually became trapped in a prison of their own schtick.

Could be I'm wrong. I'd rather discuss it than watch another one.

Totally fair, and obviously I was being a jerk there, so apologies. I do think a lot of what I see when people are vocal about how much they hate the guy they tend to be much less thoughtful, so my default is to be a bit flippant. I do think something like Rushmore is before he really started to lean into his shtick and probably more enjoyable to someone who finds it tiresome, but like you said also life is short so I get thinking "Why bother" unless there was some reason you really want to get into his stuff.

I do think the Tarantino comparison is apt because they're both directors who do slight variations within the same style every time, so if that style doesn't grab you, there might not be much reason to explore further. I recognize that Anderson is not going to reinvent himself but I do think he's the only one making movies like his and I still enjoy the shtick, so part of the appeal is watching a Wes Anderson movie is because I'll be in the mood to watch a Wes Anderson Movie. Also, while maybe he'd be able to switch it up well, I do think he'd run the risk of someone like Edgar Wright who is trying to branch out and just making complete dogshit.

I think there's a point, it seems to me at least, when some directors just get too comfortable within their style. After they've had people telling them they're great for long enough, and they start showboating, they don't try to correct their flaws any more. Well, it happens with a lot of artists that they can cross into self-caricature. It's a pitfall of success right? And I usually lose interest when I get the feeling somebody is in that place.

Tarantino can do tension GREAT, good with the camera, good with actors, but he's also a man-boy with a shallow conception of the human condition and he insists on writing his own scripts. Being a successful brand, he's stuck like that. Too bad. Another one that seemed to get a bad case of it was Taika Waititi. I thought Boy was a good movie, them I saw Hunt For The Wildepeople and it seemed like he'd fallen in love with himself in the interim and was now wallowing in directorial self-indulgence and shitting all over his own film. Put me right off him. He called it "letting Taika be Taika", and speaking about yourself in the third person is a red flag.

I even think Edgar Wright making dogshit is a more promising position to be in because he might reinvent himself, or he might flounder around for ever. But it's better than being self-satisfied and stuck on autopilot. All of this may not apply to to the career arc of Wes Anderson, but he definitely seems to be one who has leaned hard into his brand.

Wood Goblin wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:27 am I liked Rushmore and The Grand Budapest Hotel pretty well, and laughed a fair amount at both. Isle of Dogs was good too. Can’t remember a thing about Bottle Rocket and hated Tenenbaums.

He’s not my favorite director by a long shot, and I don’t love anything he’s done, but I’ll give him a not crap. I appreciate that he has a distinctive visual style and a personal set of themes. To criticize that seems persnickety.

Bumped.

The backlash against him seems to be in full force, and while I understand why, I decided I badly wanted to see Asteroid City within the first five seconds of the preview.

I don’t love his work by a long shot, but I also don’t care about the criticisms of the look of Asteroid City. I wish more movies looked like 1950s postcards!