losthighway wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:12 am Bit of a hearsay thing, but I read a book by an admittedly blowhard producer Bob Evans (The Kid Stays in the Picture). He told a tale of a Godfather movies as a directionless pile of footage, a collage of scenes, and an endless tangled yarn that the actors were trying their damndest to prop up. According to him, the editor rescued it. The Great Gatsby and the Cotton Club afterward are crap.

With the Godfather, I don't doubt that tale is true at least in part about the actors propping up the film.
About the editor deserving the credit; did Coppola not have final cut?

Coppola only halfway adapted the screenplay for that trash Gatsby movie, so maybe that's an unfair strike against him.

losthighway wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:12 am Apocalypse Now is amazing, but in part because of the chaotic era, mood, shooting and acting. You could see it as the best set of circumstances with material, talented actors, and unmanaged chaos.

Absolutely an amazing movie, and the feeling of insanity and chaos is visceral. Tense throughout.
Maybe similarly to the godfather Coppola is taking his hands of the wheel at times, which can be a fucked up experiment to subject your cast/crew to, but absolutely makes the vibe of the film.

losthighway wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:12 am (Waffles for the SE HInton films which are kind of cool)

Rumble Fish is a fantastic movie.
Not really a FFC movie, but he gave a lot of support to Barbet Schroeder in the making of Barfly.
I remember thinking his Dracula adaptation was pretty tight, but I haven't revisited.

Wood Goblin wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:18 am The thing about Jim Morrison is that nobody would care about his lyrics if he hadn’t called himself a poet. His lyrics are really no worse than anything you’d hear on a Hendrix or Cream record, but they’re also no better.

Lou Reed was sometimes a good lyricist, but he was often a terrible one.

All the WHAT girls say “doot doot”?!

brownreasontolive wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:54 pm
With the Godfather, I don't doubt that tale is true at least in part about the actors propping up the film.
About the editor deserving the credit; did Coppola not have final cut?

I think he probably did, but to hear Evans tell it he took a gigantic pile of footage (in his defense, Paramount was doing some belt tightening that probably felt like outright hostility to a director) and a bewildered sense of despair to a genius editor who said, "I think I can carve out a story in this". If the Wikipedia page is to be believed, the editing process was so extensive that people are still debating exactly who gets credit for how much of it with other personnel coming in. More of an ad hoc committee making the stew than any kind of auteur. It's remarkable that the film is as great as it is, because the above situation has been the recipe for many of Hollywood's most disastrous artistic failures.

On the subject of gangster movies, Scarface is crap. It's 'legend' survives purely thanks to immature white guys who like to think they're more badass than they actually are circulating quotes amongst themselves ad infinitum and claiming it's a great movie.

Curry Pervert wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:20 pm On the subject of gangster movies, Scarface is crap. [...] immature white guys [...] circulating quotes amongst themselves

Totally agree, it's boring and silly. I hate basically every "quotable" movie. I swear they started making movies intentionally quotable eventually. Mean Girls tried to make "fetch" happen (and even succeeded).

Maybe this is close to inevitable when it comes to a lot of longstanding categories and genre signifiers, but to me the term "rock music" has come to encompass such a wide variety of styles and sensibilities that its accuracy is almost suspect. Kinda feel like it's a sacred cow worth tipping. I mean, almost anything with overdriven or distorted guitars, some kind of tension and release, possibly a beat and some lyrics, falls somewhere in or very close to the rock spectrum, and yet many of these things might otherwise have very little to do with each other. It's like saying a phonebook, a diffuse work of literary fiction, a spy novel, Trump: The Art of the Deal, and a picture book of antique doilies are coming from a similar place when mostly what they have in common is being bound somehow and printed on paper. Sub-genres can help combat this potential for nebulousness, but even then there might be a lot of daylight between things.

chris wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:02 am a properly mastered vinyl record can only ever sound as good as a properly mastered digital file of the same source material. i actually don't really know if that's controversial among this crew

“as good as” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, as is “properly mastered”.

Assuming that the source is analogue, what ADC do you have in mind - one that is closest to off-the-wire source, or one that adds some schenazle? If the source is digital, then the same considerations will apply twice.

For the digital master - which sample rate and bit depth do you speak of, and if dithering then which dithering option(s) would you consider properly dithered?

There are plenty of sonic artefacts that we can listen to from a digital source, but would likely burn out a cutting head.

I am only being half a smart arse here

jason from volo wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:52 pm

seby wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:29 pm

chris wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:02 am a properly mastered vinyl record can only ever sound as good as a properly mastered digital file of the same source material. i actually don't really know if that's controversial among this crew

“as good as” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, as is “properly mastered”.

Assuming that the source is analogue, what ADC do you have in mind - one that is closest to off-the-wire source, or one that adds some schenazle? If the source is digital, then the same considerations will apply twice.

For the digital master - which sample rate and bit depth do you speak of, and if dithering then which dithering option(s) would you consider properly dithered?

There are plenty of sonic artefacts that we can listen to from a digital source, but would likely burn out a cutting head.

I am only being half a smart arse here

I don't think you're being a smart arse at all. I was thinking about replying with something similar but didn't because there's no way my response would have been as accurate or as comprehensive as many others on PRF could provide.

The original statement is kind of like saying that a properly grown orange can never taste better than a properly grown apple.

Some strong points here. The irony in digital (that may one day hopefully disappear) is that it currently can be done more consistently well than typical vinyl (audiophile systems aren't typical), but it isn't. The contemporary CD properly mastered, played on a good player is a quality medium. People with fiberlink internet could easily stream files that would overshadow the CD. Instead much of the time streaming means listening to what is effectively a slightly better mp3 than everyone put on their ipods in the 00's.

Streaming audio can, and probably will be hi fi one day. Which is great. It also has nothing to do with taking an LP out of the sleeve, putting the needle down and reading the insert. That's an experience you can't stream at any fidelity (Jason's apples and oranges is apt).

Curry Pervert wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:20 pm On the subject of gangster movies, Scarface is crap. It's 'legend' survives purely thanks to immature white guys who like to think they're more badass than they actually are circulating quotes amongst themselves ad infinitum and claiming it's a great movie.

Agreed. It's an ugly, tacky, stupid movie.

enframed wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:52 am

kicker_of_elves wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:33 am The sound engineering on the majority of SST recordings is dogshit.

I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

Actually, I would.

(Don't get me started...)