Nate Dort wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:36 pm

Garth wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:41 pm I need to try to figure out how to fashion some sort of baffle behind it to help tame the figure-of-eight pattern & not pick up so much of the crash/hi-hat.

Rubber-band a folded piece of fabric to the back of it? Or maybe a sock filled with rockwool or pink fiberglass?

Yeah, I originally thought this but worried something closely attached to the grill would change the "acoustic chamber" it sits in too much? But actually thinking about it, the screen around the element is quite large so maybe no real danger of this. Like most things I let worry get in the way of experimentation in favor of a more elaborate idea like cutting out a small chonk of plywood w/ foam on one side and attaching it to a broken mic clip & using another mic stand w/ it.

I'll try the sock and report back after the holidays! Thanks!

Garth wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:41 pm To get it all the way there, I need to try to figure out how to fashion some sort of baffle behind it to help tame the figure-of-eight pattern & not pick up so much of the crash/hi-hat.

I remember reading something about a playing card behind a figure 8 microphone, on the side that you don't want to hear as much of. I can't recall how it was attached to the mic, but I think it was an inch or two away and angled very slightly up so it wouldn't be reflecting right back at the element. Possibly a clothespin was used in the attachment? Sorry this is so vague, I came across it a long time ago but it always stuck in the back of my mind.

Tom Wanderer wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:02 am

Garth wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:41 pm To get it all the way there, I need to try to figure out how to fashion some sort of baffle behind it to help tame the figure-of-eight pattern & not pick up so much of the crash/hi-hat.

I remember reading something about a playing card behind a figure 8 microphone, on the side that you don't want to hear as much of. I can't recall how it was attached to the mic, but I think it was an inch or two away and angled very slightly up so it wouldn't be reflecting right back at the element. Possibly a clothespin was used in the attachment? Sorry this is so vague, I came across it a long time ago but it always stuck in the back of my mind.

It's not a bad idea - you shouldn't need a whole heck of a lot to help tame cymbal bleed, right? It's mostly high-frequency information which doesn't require as much mass to filter out. Thanks!

I found out it was quite decent as a snare mic just trying a minimal mic, minimal drums setup to record our Christmas song contribution to Jon Solomon's radio show and set it equidistant between the floor tom & snare & using the figure-of-eight pattern which then sets the kick at the null point. Although tbh, it ended up picking up more floor tom than snare so wasn't exactly perfect w/ my placement. More experimentation to follow for sure - I'm kinda excited at this prospect as I've never really been happy w/ the sound of a close mic on snare like EVER w/ the closest I've come being a Sennheiser e906. Was going to try a SM7 next, but now I'm rambling...

Garth wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:21 am It's not a bad idea - you shouldn't need a whole heck of a lot to help tame cymbal bleed, right? It's mostly high-frequency information which doesn't require as much mass to filter out. Thanks!

Good luck! Let us know how it works, whatever you end up trying. I've got a Fat Head I haven't used in forever. I should give it a spin.

Tom Wanderer wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:06 am

Garth wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:21 am It's not a bad idea - you shouldn't need a whole heck of a lot to help tame cymbal bleed, right? It's mostly high-frequency information which doesn't require as much mass to filter out. Thanks!

Good luck! Let us know how it works, whatever you end up trying. I've got a Fat Head I haven't used in forever. I should give it a spin.

It's pretty cool how well it worked out for this application so far - I got the idea from a different minimal micing technique where they used a single ribbon & figure-of-8 pattern to capture rack tom & floor tom.

With careful positioning and a flexible drummer, the ride as well as the kick and snare can be placed in the null axis (or at least close). In a pinch, not a bad way to reduce your number of inputs if you have maybe an interface w/ limited # of channels or preamps and a little different flavor than the glyn johns.

I love a minimal mic setup. It's just how I'm programmed from decades of using 4 and 8 track equipment. I almost always do an overhead more or less centered above the kit (used to be the Fat Head, now it's a 4033), D112 on the kick and a MD421 about a foot or 18" above the snare, pointed at the center. I should mix it up a bit more, but I tend to stick with something if it works for me. I should also mention that my kit is really paired down; kick, snare, floor tom, hi-hat and ride. So it's pretty easy to capture.

I have been pleasantly surprised with results of recording a kit with a single mic, though, when just getting an idea down. Something a few feet in front of the kit, maybe 3 feet in the air. I like the technique you describe for it's economy and to use the characteristics of a few well chosen mics, positioned carefully, to get what you're going for without a lot of rigmarole down the line.

Very, very highly recommend the Cascade Vin-Jet stereo pair with Blumlein bar. We use it on every session, usually on drum or amp room duty, but they can stand in perfectly for 4038s on overheads or R121s on guitar.

They work just fine without the Lundahls if that's above your budget. You can always swap those in later.

I like to leave the "cheese grater" HF exciters in, because they do protect the motors against high sound pressure, which actually makes these a viable option for SOME bass cabs. But you can have those out in 5 minutes, no problem.

A pair of these, an M88, and a few M101s, and you basically have yourself a mic locker.

This is about the time in any "recommend me a cheap ____" where someone chimes in about building one yourself. Don't fucking do it - as rewarding as it is to use a mic I made myself, I feel like I am now a different person. I am a shell of a once confident man.

TylerDeadPine wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:25 am This is about the time in any "recommend me a cheap ____" where someone chimes in about building one yourself. Don't fucking do it - as rewarding as it is to use a mic I made myself, I feel like I am now a different person. I am a shell of a once confident man.

Could you elaborate? I would like to pursue building some mics from kits, but you've got me a bit shook. I have built a shit ton of pedals, modded quite a few things and have gotten to be a pretty good solder jockey. What did you build that destroyed you? I was thinking of building some Bumblebee ribbons.

I'm just bitter. and cheap - I used the DIY silver-leaf method of creating a ribbon, I'm sure it would be easier if I had spent money on proper ribbon material, or I would've just destroyed that material because it was so hard. I'm not sure.

Electrically it's super simple and actually I found the whole build process, making the motor etc. to be a ton of fun... and then I tried to lay the ribbon.

It's physically difficult and mentally infuriating - you can't in the slightest be a hot head. You have to get into a mindset that you are going to fail over and over again and that's fine because failing is part of the fun. You say to yourself, failing is learning. You know how to fail. You are a loser. Your dog doesn't even love you. You'll always be a pathetic piece of shit with a receding hairline. But maybe you can build a microphone.

You have to wear two masks the whole time and not breath much as it will move the ribbon out of place, usually tearing it. You need to practise the physical motions and steps over and over again because the slightest slip of one of your hands will cause the ribbon to fold or tear, causing you to start at the beginning. Lift, place in paper, lift, place in corrugator, corrugate ribbon, lift center, place in motor, fix in place. Each time you lift could be ribbon doom. You get all the way to the end where the ribbon is laid in the motor and you move a finger ever slightly in the wrong direction and the ribbon slides a little bit too far towards one of the magnets and you're totally hosed. You won't cry at all, definitely won't.

When I finally got it I went into the other room, closed the door and screamed in delight that it was all over.