DaveA wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:09 pmThat's a thorough, thoughtful post, FM kokorodoko.

Thanks, I appreciate your pointed answers too.

DaveA wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:09 pm[D]epending on one's environment, such resources and circumstances can be deemed suspect. What might well pass for relatively "normal" in one setting, among a specialized group of people, can be almost inordinate in another. And furthermore, among people who eat, sleep, and breathe such things, in a professional context, those same "gifts" and opportunities one makes good on in his free time, could come off as anemic. Strange how that works, huh?
...
[P]eople who are insiders somehow, involved with institutions of some sort or somehow professionally accredited, or even just people who've got the luxury of being a part of a larger community or others with the same interests, enjoy a certain insulation from being accused of barking up the wrong tree, or being "full of it" (if they know their stuff). Such people can always fall back on the alibi of, "This is my job, I'm paid to be nerdy/astute/inquisitive, this is what people like us do," etc. But when people outside these situations try to maintain such interests...who knows? They might feel very adrift or at odds.

Sure, Dunning-Kruger is always present. And people of some group let you get away with things people of another group won't. The consensus of a group itself is different from how members of the group might express things individually... I don't see much awareness of these things among the leftists I observe.

I don't know how it looks from the perspective of a scholar, but if I were to speculate, I assume someone inside the halls could be more nervous about information becoming corrupted by being disseminated among outsiders (which is probably true, and it might be what it's "meant" to do).

You're also likely right about the jadedness of professionals. But that could be a source of stimulation too. When I happen upon something I think is DA BOMB and find out someone else has been going over it 50 times already, that could result in feeling downstruck, but it doesn't have to - I usually find it amusing. On the level of facts ("this thinker said this thing") there is a certain kind of true or false, while on the level of practice there is another. If you can relate something to your environment and your lived experience (and it's not blatantly unscientific), it "works" in some sense. I can imagine there being fun interplay between those inside and outside in this way.

kokorodoko wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:09 am

biscuitdough wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:55 pmIt's worth noting that any mindless mob is still made up of people who, when they're not subject to mass psychology, have minds and personalities of their own.

Certainly. But when an individual is thinking as an individual, they are not of the mass, even if they identify with it. It would seem then that the mass/people in this instance is a Big Other (i.e. in identifying with the people you think you're identifying with an "everybody else", but each individual identifying in this way rests their identification on this same "everybody else", and in actuality, no one person is this "else").

Typing this though, I don't feel quite sure. How does the individual mind in a state of mass consciousness work? And are there different types (say pogrom vs. rock concert)? I'll have to think about it.

So, I think the disconnect you're having is a conflation of the people with the masses. I think any leftist ideology with a humane basis is about solidarity with and advocacy for the individuals who are, as a mass, repressed. Not the people-the mob, but the people-the persons who are disenfranchised.

Even the ideological right frames its goals as the liberation or restoration of some group that supposedly lost its deserved prestige. That's in contrast to populist movements, which attempt to ride a wave of existing mob sentiment for self-serving reasons. If you look at populist leaders they tend to be pragmatic rather than ideological.

So I was recently listening to Frank Black's cover of "Duke of Earl":



It is this part (beginning at the 0:59 mark) that upsets me. The lyrics are as follows (bolded emphasis mine):

And when I hold you
You'll be my Duchess, Duchess of Earl
We'll walk through my dukedom
And a paradise we will share

It's crazy. Why didn't Bernice Williams, Earl Edwards, and Eugene Dixon write this verse instead:

And when I hold you
You'll be my Duchess, Duchess of Earl
We'll walk through my dukedom
And a paradise will unfurl

It rhymes, unlike "share". I dare say it's more poetic. Instead we get a line that lands like a lead balloon. Why?

Christ twitter knows how to make people irritated. Now they randomly give me a popup saying login to continue reading. No I don't want to login, I just want to read, get it? Because if I get an account I won't post anything, so then I will be deleted for inactivity. wth how can you not get this is simple

Anonymous37 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:03 pm So I was recently listening to Frank Black's cover of "Duke of Earl":

It is this part (beginning at the 0:59 mark) that upsets me. The lyrics are as follows (bolded emphasis mine):

And when I hold you
You'll be my Duchess, Duchess of Earl
We'll walk through my dukedom
And a paradise we will share

It's crazy. Why didn't Bernice Williams, Earl Edwards, and Eugene Dixon write this verse instead:

And when I hold you
You'll be my Duchess, Duchess of Earl
We'll walk through my dukedom
And a paradise will unfurl

It rhymes, unlike "share". I dare say it's more poetic. Instead we get a line that lands like a lead balloon. Why?

If I can piggyback a grievance...
Frank Black has an overwhelming amount of really well crafted songs. Like, a lot of really good material. Too much good. Save some for the rest of us.

DHS's new OBRA Level II requirements are really pissing me off lately. The counties don't have the staff for it, the hospitals are backed up enough as it is, and now I have patients stuck in the hospital when they have an accepting rehab facility and are ready to go. The counties don't have the staff to do it, we don't have the beds to burn, and needs aren't being met.

To whoever stole my Univox Hi-Flier from the UPS facility as it was en route to a Reverb buyer: I wish you incontinence at the worst of times. On a long, cross-country drive. On a date. In the middle of a job interview. Now and forever.

The Yeoman Ghost wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:49 pm To whoever stole my Univox Hi-Flier from the UPS facility as it was en route to a Reverb buyer...

Hey now! That's a grievance. 12/10. You've got something to complain about, there!


Mine is much more benign and mundane, nothing I'll care about in a day or so, hopefully. Namely I got woken up prematurely this morning, for no good reason, after staying up late, and I've been in zombie mode for much of the day, unable to get a lot of work done. Even while trying to lose consciousness, I'm at a loss.

Riding to work on the L this morning I saw this dopey white guy with a cowboy hat with a smug look on his face. Then I realized that the jagoff was not wearing a mask.

I was tempted to grab his hat and toss it on the tracks when the train came to the next station. But then I came to the realization that to do so would have amounted to the same thing as arguing with a homeless person who is ranting at some unseen phantom.

Then it would have been me that was the jagoff.

yngwie einstein wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:50 pm Riding to work on the L this morning I saw this dopey white guy with a cowboy hat with a smug look on his face. Then I realized that the jagoff was not wearing a mask.

I was tempted to grab his hat and toss it on the tracks when the train came to the next station. But then I came to the realization that to do so would have amounted to the same thing as arguing with a homeless person who is ranting at some unseen phantom.

Then it would have been me that was the jagoff.

No idea what it is about the train that makes people act like complete jagbags. Earlier this year while in the subway I watched such a monstrous display of dickish behavior I had to insert myself in the situation. A distressed woman who had her shoes off, but located right beside her, was asking for money. She approached a man who said something to her that I couldn't understand because I had on headphones. She immediately looked crestfallen and walked away without her shoes. The man, some Under Armour-wearing dickhead then went and kicked her shoes on the traintracks. I had no choice but to walk-up to the asshole and ask why the fuck he had to kick her shoes onto the tracks? His response was "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU" and stepped to me like he was going to throw a punch. I immediately took out my phone and he began walking away with me following him repeating the question "why are you such a fucking piece of shit, kicking a homeless person shoes on the tracks"? He was literally sprinting away with me in tow attempting to get this chump's face on camera. This went on for at least a minute until he got on a train with a smug look. Fuck that chump, man. I would've followed him home. Fucking prick.