eephus wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:14 am One thing about acoustics is you know right away if you play it and it's a good one

elisha wiesner wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:54 am I love some vintage Harmony/Silvertone and Regal guitars from the 20's-60's. They typically sound and play pretty poorly but with a bunch of work, they can be killer. They used good wood and they're not valuable on their own so modding them is not a problem. I love rebuilding them and making them into good guitars. I play a 50's Harmony H-165 more than any guitar that I own. It's the guitar I leave out in the living room and it's great. I have a pile of broken ones in my shop and wish I had more time to fix them up or that there was a bigger demand for them. I would be completely happy if I could just work on them all day long.

steve wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:12 pm

eephus wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:14 am One thing about acoustics is you know right away if you play it and it's a good one

Struth. You can play three chords on a winner and instantly want to sit down with it for an hour.

bishopdante wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:05 pm If you find an acoustic guitar which has got the horrible plastic varnish, you can have that stripped and sanded back, and given a polished and/or oiled finish. This will result in a much better and louder guitar, and unfortunately many a case of over zealous plastic coating down the Indonesian factory can result in several hundred grams of resonance damping tone death to have been applied.

There are specific manufacturers who are guilty of making quite nice guitars which they bury under a sheet of plastic, so you get this "dipped in glass" polyurethane finish. This same plastic can be used to make a variety of bushings and things like skateboard wheels with the softer durometers. It also doesn't like UV much, and is prone to all the crappy cracking/crazing/dulling issues that Polyurethane and Polyester boat varnishes are famous for, which is what these are.

Getting the stuff off is a nightmare, but if you can switch the finish of a guitar for the lightest dusting of french polish, with the faintest swish of mica grain filler, it'll sound loads better.

Removing the varnish can also require reducing the thickness of the guitar's top, which can be done in a skilled fashion and improve the overall quality of the instrument. Taking the bridge off is often required, but taking the top off is pretty drastic - you can usually get away without doing that.

Find an expensive guitar that just sounds like crap? It was probably nice before they turned it into a plastic sculpture and cast it into a block of resin.

Lots of guitars are in their realistic application, mostly ornament / status symbol. Especially expensive ones. They are basically wood-art, and there is a whole variety of ornamental abalone encrusted display instruments going back to antiquity which go with the ornamental swords, ornamental fruit trees, and so on.

The telecaster is a good, modern break with that tradition, cares mostly not what varnish you use, and can be used to knock down doors or break windows to escape from a burning building. No need to access that emergency hammer under that sheet of glass, I'll just reach for the telecaster. If you keep yours under glass, in case of fire I'll use mine to break the glass, and grab it on the way out. If you dent or refinish a telecaster it will basically sound the same. Nitrocellulose is what I'm on, and maybe you can hear the difference. That plastic varnish is mighty thick on some '80s Fenders, and getting rid of it will make the guitar feel lighter if not sound better.

For an acoustic guitar, thick paint or varnish can ruin the sound, and you'll think this manufacturer have lost their mind asking for money for such an instrument. All it took was the car painter to do a shift on the Takamine line. Suddenly hundreds of shiny guitars... that sound shit.

bishopdante wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:54 pm Should also be noted that if the top is a softer sort of wood with a harder varnish, you can't get the varnish off without severely damaging the top.

Putting a new or much improved spruce top with a french polish finish on a guitar is an inexpensive and substantial upgrade for any guitar, and can be done by a professional luthier for the retail price of a top flight hard case (£350 or so in the UK).

It's especially advisable if you buy a guitar with a cracked soundboard for the purpose of hot-rodding.

elisha wiesner wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:01 pm

bishopdante wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:05 pm If you find an acoustic guitar which has got the horrible plastic varnish, you can have that stripped and sanded back, and given a polished and/or oiled finish. This will result in a much better and louder guitar, and unfortunately many a case of over zealous plastic coating down the Indonesian factory can result in several hundred grams of resonance damping tone death to have been applied.

There are specific manufacturers who are guilty of making quite nice guitars which they bury under a sheet of plastic, so you get this "dipped in glass" polyurethane finish. This same plastic can be used to make a variety of bushings and things like skateboard wheels with the softer durometers. It also doesn't like UV much, and is prone to all the crappy cracking/crazing/dulling issues that Polyurethane and Polyester boat varnishes are famous for, which is what these are.

Getting the stuff off is a nightmare, but if you can switch the finish of a guitar for the lightest dusting of french polish, with the faintest swish of mica grain filler, it'll sound loads better.

Removing the varnish can also require reducing the thickness of the guitar's top, which can be done in a skilled fashion and improve the overall quality of the instrument. Taking the bridge off is often required, but taking the top off is pretty drastic - you can usually get away without doing that.

Find an expensive guitar that just sounds like crap? It was probably nice before they turned it into a plastic sculpture and cast it into a block of resin.

Lots of guitars are in their realistic application, mostly ornament / status symbol. Especially expensive ones. They are basically wood-art, and there is a whole variety of ornamental abalone encrusted display instruments going back to antiquity which go with the ornamental swords, ornamental fruit trees, and so on.

The telecaster is a good, modern break with that tradition, cares mostly not what varnish you use, and can be used to knock down doors or break windows to escape from a burning building. No need to access that emergency hammer under that sheet of glass, I'll just reach for the telecaster. If you keep yours under glass, in case of fire I'll use mine to break the glass, and grab it on the way out. If you dent or refinish a telecaster it will basically sound the same. Nitrocellulose is what I'm on, and maybe you can hear the difference. That plastic varnish is mighty thick on some '80s Fenders, and getting rid of it will make the guitar feel lighter if not sound better.

For an acoustic guitar, thick paint or varnish can ruin the sound, and you'll think this manufacturer have lost their mind asking for money for such an instrument. All it took was the car painter to do a shift on the Takamine line. Suddenly hundreds of shiny guitars... that sound shit.

I don't know of a single high end guitar maker that uses a thick poly finish. I literally can't think of one! Plenty of cheaper import guitars do and while it certainly doesn't help the sound, it is only one of many factors why these guitars typically don't sound all that great.

I also think you're kind of missing the point. Takamine guitars do have a thick finish. They're also over built and yeah, they rarely sound all that great. They're designed to be played live. Half the bar room guitar players here have them because they're affordable, reliable, have decent electronics, and are overbuilt, including a thick finish, which protects them from the abuse of endless live shows and seasonal changes. You could put the thinest french polish in the world on a Takamine and it would still sound like crap but now wouldn't last a year on the bar circuit.