Yeah there is no reason to relitigate 2016, the most important thing is fighting it and we are largely going to have to depend on ourselves, things like mutual aid, donating and volunteering with abortion access groups, civil disobedience, things like that. It's disheartening but not unexpected that the Dem party leadership is viewing this as an opportunity to round up campaign donations and as something to hold over the heads of voters for the midterms rather than an urgent problem that has to be dealt with immediately.

Wood Goblin wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:13 pm Hairy Caul, the Republicans had 54 Senate seats in Obama’s last year, and they had 53 in Trump’s. They also eliminated the filibuster for Supreme Court slots in 2017 after Democrats tried to use it to stop Gorsuch.

Democrats didn’t roll over on either nomination. They simply didn’t have the votes.

You are correct, and I concede that point.

This doesn't change my ultimate point: that people have always been wrong to put their faith in the supreme court--which has historically been, and continues to be, an abhorrent cancer in this country--and, rather than wait for the court to continue to chip away at whatever people allow them to, should be actively undermined through comprehensive/brutal reforms or restrictions on its ill-gotten power.

If this was a war, how would you win it? If this was Putin taking over your country - and it very much might as well be - you'd put up some kind of organised fight, not just stand around and hope for the best. I have no idea what the response should be either, but the focus should always be on taking control back from the Republicans and with everything to play for, the resistance will need to concentrate action where it will be most effective, not just in ways that are convenient.

Anthony Flack wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:56 pm If this was a war, how would you win it? If this was Putin taking over your country - and it very much might as well be - you'd put up some kind of organised fight, not just stand around and hope for the best. I have no idea what the response should be either, but the focus should always be on taking control back from the Republicans and with everything to play for, the resistance will need to concentrate action where it will be most effective, not just in ways that are convenient.

My feeling at this point is you push hard—and you work hard—for a constitutional amendment. (And throw gun control in there while you’re at it.) Maybe it works, maybe (more likely) that it doesn’t, but you put those motherfuckers on the defensive. Make *them* concede for once.

The court is hopeless, and any legislative solution could be undone by the next administration.

PASTA wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 am

numberthirty wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:00 pm Put plainly...

A lot of Democrats don't seem to have any problem putting dealing with things off until tomorrow as long as they get their slice of the pie today.

The (Bill AND Hillary) Clinton generation of NEW DEMOCRATS with their welfare reform, pro-business, "it's the economy (errr Dow Jones S&P) stupid" in particular.
HOWEVER, this amounts to nothing but MORE typical left of Center finger pointing, which is some of the behavior that got us in this mess. I dunno a solution, and am not about to pretend I do. The right has successfully re-written the language of discourse in this nation.

motorbike guy wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:48 am None of the above bullshit explains why democrats cannot unite behind the democrat nominee once the primaries are over.

Sure, maybe you liked bernie, or harris, or warren or somebody else, but staying home on election day to protest Hillary has led us to this.

Even Biden was better than the alternative, and I am no Biden fan. Being pissed off at the lack of progressiveness in the Democratic party is no excuse for handing the election over to the insanity that is the Republican party.

Lemme put this about as plainly as I can...

How many times is "Business As Usual..." Democratic Party nonsense going to screw everyone over before folks grasp the incredibly basic reality that it is not the voter's fault that it has?

If you have people who will completely refuse to grasp "Basics 101..." stuff running for office?

It is way the Hell past time that voters should have to drag their sorry asses across the finish line because they cannot process the reality that they might lose.

Never mind not being able to use "High School Football..." level strategy when it comes to every thing from the Supreme Court to the they will need to run a unity ticket to actually stand a chance at winning.

Wiping fully grown adult's noses for them went out in '86.

I cannot even believe that folks need to be told this.

^ But aren't you saying (or should be) that it's also voters' fault for supporting tepid centrists?

losthighway wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:04 pm ^ But aren't you saying (or should be) that it's also voters' fault for supporting tepid centrists?

Hell no...

The last Presidential cycle?

Not only did Democrats have to clear the field to prevent Sanders from potentially winning their nomination. Dems in the House somehow managed to lose seats in the middle of the opposition fumbling a pandemic...

At some point, it stops being the voters fault if you are out of touch to that degree.

They cannot even fathom that they need someone to throw them a life preserver. Never mind that they need to be yelling for a lifeguard right around "Yesterday..."

I don't know about that. I voted for Bernie and he won my state. He also got his clock cleaned all the way across the South on the same day and the midwest wasn't all that kind to him either.

Look, if you and I were to sit around and talk about how Dems are going to lose everything if they keep betting on centrists, we might be right. At least if we're sitting in Los Angeles or New York, or probably Denver where I'm sitting right now. Meanwhile in Jacksonville, Detroit, and Dallas there's some polite folk talking about how the Dems can't win if they keep entertaining these "radical socialist ideas". They're also right.

The people who don't want the fascists to win also disagree about a lot of shit. They're a hard crew to keep together and to court. Sometimes they don't feel like a crew at all, they're just all the rest of us who aren't part of a cult.

Hairy Caul wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 4:54 pm

Wood Goblin wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:13 pm Hairy Caul, the Republicans had 54 Senate seats in Obama’s last year, and they had 53 in Trump’s. They also eliminated the filibuster for Supreme Court slots in 2017 after Democrats tried to use it to stop Gorsuch.

Democrats didn’t roll over on either nomination. They simply didn’t have the votes.

You are correct, and I concede that point.

I wouldn't be so quick to concede. The Senate rules are ridiculously long, full of all sorts of bullshit like anonymous rolling holds that could scuttle a judicial nomination indefinitely regardless of whether they hit a magic number of votes. The Democrats are just unwilling. The "why" behind that choice no longer matters in the age of Amoral Turtle McConnell.

losthighway wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:04 pm I don't know about that. I voted for Bernie and he won my state. He also got his clock cleaned all the way across the South on the same day and the midwest wasn't all that kind to him either.

Look, if you and I were to sit around and talk about how Dems are going to lose everything if they keep betting on centrists, we might be right. At least if we're sitting in Los Angeles or New York, or probably Denver where I'm sitting right now. Meanwhile in Jacksonville, Detroit, and Dallas there's some polite folk talking about how the Dems can't win if they keep entertaining these "radical socialist ideas". They're also right.

The people who don't want the fascists to win also disagree about a lot of shit. They're a hard crew to keep together and to court. Sometimes they don't feel like a crew at all, they're just all the rest of us who aren't part of a cult.

You mean the races that took place after this happened?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/us/p ... s-out.html

Pete Buttigieg Drops Out of Democratic Presidential Race

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... n-n1147191

Amy Klobuchar drops out of presidential race, will endorse Biden