"Just vote" is the most staggeringly inadequate shit ever when we're dealing with a president who actively worked to undermine abortion rights for years, and who was vice president under a man who promised to enshrine the right in law and immediately jettisoned it.

I can tell you that I hate having to vote for these candidates for the most part. They do very little to help or protect anyone in need, they shelter the wealthy, they are consistently reminding us about all of “the norms and rules” that keep them from doing anything meaningful. Dems are a fucking disaster. I mean, if you met many of the people on this board in person, the idea that Biden or Pelosi represents that group would be laughable.

Unfortunately, as I described earlier, it’s what we have right now. All humans have to sometimes make choices we don’t like to make because we have no other option - it’s just part of being a critically thinking and strategic person.

Frankie99 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:54 pm I can tell you that I hate having to vote for these candidates for the most part. They do very little to help or protect anyone in need, they shelter the wealthy, they are consistently reminding us about all of “the norms and rules” that keep them from doing anything meaningful. Dems are a fucking disaster. I mean, if you met many of the people on this board in person, the idea that Biden or Pelosi represents that group would be laughable.

Unfortunately, as I described earlier, it’s what we have right now. All humans have to sometimes make choices we don’t like to make because we have no other option - it’s just part of being a critically thinking and strategic person.

If the strategy was to wind up all but "Completely Screwed..."?

You might have a point.

Otherwise?

I suspect that folks in abusive relationships with addicts probably said the same.

Someone should have been there to tell them otherwise.

Ace K wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:35 pm "Just vote" is the most staggeringly inadequate shit ever when we're dealing with a president who actively worked to undermine abortion rights for years, and who was vice president under a man who promised to enshrine the right in law and immediately jettisoned it.

Never mind that they pulled something very similar on Card Check.

Sometimes?

You actually cannot trust an untrustworthy mofo.

numberthirty wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:02 pm

Frankie99 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:54 pm I can tell you that I hate having to vote for these candidates for the most part. They do very little to help or protect anyone in need, they shelter the wealthy, they are consistently reminding us about all of “the norms and rules” that keep them from doing anything meaningful. Dems are a fucking disaster. I mean, if you met many of the people on this board in person, the idea that Biden or Pelosi represents that group would be laughable.

Unfortunately, as I described earlier, it’s what we have right now. All humans have to sometimes make choices we don’t like to make because we have no other option - it’s just part of being a critically thinking and strategic person.

If the strategy was to wind up all but "Completely Screwed..."?

You might have a point.

Otherwise?

I suspect that folks in abusive relationships with addicts probably said the same.

Someone should have been there to tell them otherwise.

I think that’s a poor analogy - there is no real link in the relationship you’ve created between voters and victims. Also, I think comparing the psychologies of abuse victims to reluctantly voters playing by rules they can’t change is unnecessarily hyperbolic. I’ll end my criticism of the analogy there.

Also, those who sat out - the outcome you were hoping for can’t be this, or else your support for the DSA/Sanders is superficial. Therefore, the experiment seems to have failed.

Frankie99 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:00 am

numberthirty wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:02 pm

Frankie99 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:54 pm I can tell you that I hate having to vote for these candidates for the most part. They do very little to help or protect anyone in need, they shelter the wealthy, they are consistently reminding us about all of “the norms and rules” that keep them from doing anything meaningful. Dems are a fucking disaster. I mean, if you met many of the people on this board in person, the idea that Biden or Pelosi represents that group would be laughable.

Unfortunately, as I described earlier, it’s what we have right now. All humans have to sometimes make choices we don’t like to make because we have no other option - it’s just part of being a critically thinking and strategic person.

If the strategy was to wind up all but "Completely Screwed..."?

You might have a point.

Otherwise?

I suspect that folks in abusive relationships with addicts probably said the same.

Someone should have been there to tell them otherwise.

I think that’s a poor analogy - there is no real link in the relationship you’ve created between voters and victims. Also, I think comparing the psychologies of abuse victims to reluctantly voters playing by rules they can’t change is unnecessarily hyperbolic. I’ll end my criticism of the analogy there.

Also, those who sat out - the outcome you were hoping for can’t be this, or else your support for the DSA/Sanders is superficial. Therefore, the experiment seems to have failed.

If I had a dime for every time I have heard someone in a relationship with an abusive addict say that almost to the letter?

I could buy myself anyone one of the countless Democrat politicians at the Federal level that are obviously for sale.

As for "Can't Change..."?

If even fifty percent of the folks that vote for Democrats stopped by whatever the next election is?

Actually threw a wrench into a bunch of sellouts' ability to scam off of holding office?

Things would change at the speed of light.

As I said, I don’t like the people or ideas any more than you do, more than likely, it’s just that I don’t see the utility in burning it all down to prove a point.

Put another way, I’d rather clean up Chihuahua shit than Rhinoceros shit from my yard. Not cleaning either isn’t really an option, IMO.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:40 pm That's only true if the lesser of two evils never gets in, fwiw.

Nope.

In the graphic shown, if the left move right in an attempt to court the voters that lean to the right and then they win, they see that as an endorsement that they did the correct thing to win an election. To keep winning, which is what they want to do, they now believe they have to maintain that position or even keep moving further to the right.

This is why the centrist argument of "let's just win first and then we can pull them back to the left" is a fallacy.

Why does this always work in the direction of the right? Can't vote for the Democrats; the right will win. Can't not vote for the Democrats; the right will win even faster. Absolutely every outcome pushes the needle further to the right, apparently. Where's they symmetry in this diagram?

If everybody who is disgusted with the Dems holds back their vote, things would change in a heartbeat, all right. Republicans would sweep the vote, secure permanent minority rule just like in Victor Orban's Hungary, ban abortion, gay marriage and access to contraception, and then... uh, then the left would say oh well I told you so? What kind of strategy is that?

Wait, we'll start a third party with the aim of taking power fifty years from now after half a century of total Republican control. At that point it'll be easy, like starting a new political party in Russia.

Curry Pervert wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 2:21 pm In the graphic shown, if the left move right in an attempt to court the voters that lean to the right and then they win, they see that as an endorsement that they did the correct thing to win an election. To keep winning, which is what they want to do, they now believe they have to maintain that position or even keep moving further to the right.

This is why the centrist argument of "let's just win first and then we can pull them back to the left" is a fallacy.

If your electorate is fucking mute, sure. Otherwise, that's absolute bollocks.