I spent a bit of time thinking about this today.

Of the bands I’m aware, lineup changes often coincide with (early) drops in quality.

Megadeth was implied in another thread. Pretenders are another example (potentially). There are those (not me) that would argue Pink Floyd.

The “magic” of a band often seems tied to the chemistry of the specific band members; not necessarily meaning that they get along.

jfv wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:32 pm Pretenders are another example (potentially). There are those (not me) that would argue Pink Floyd.

Pretenders II is similarly solid to their debut. Pink Floyd's quality continued to rise, until it couldn't.

I was thinking Jawbox is a good inverse-of-this-rule band. Their debut was decent and then they only grew from there.

There's a lot to be said for why the band exists. Some of them are openly searching for something, so it follows that their path won't be so linear. Others just rock out, which is great, but after a period of refinement is more likely to be a case of diminishing returns.

Pere Ubu never topped The Modern dance.

Cheap Trick never topped the debut, though the next 2 are great.

Helmet's strap it on is the real deal. Rest is very good (Betty specially) but can't compare to that beast.

Vibracobra wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:33 am Pere Ubu never topped The Modern dance.

hmm, it (and the early EPs) 'rocks' more but I don't think they're better than Dub Housing. Steep drop after that though: I don't think I've ever made it all the way thru The Art of Walking..

penningtron wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:54 am

Vibracobra wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:33 am Pere Ubu never topped The Modern dance.

hmm, it (and the early EPs) 'rocks' more but I don't think they're better than Dub Housing. Steep drop after that though: I don't think I've ever made it all the way thru The Art of Walking..

The Rough Trade albums aren’t very listenable, and then you get a sort of attempt at adult radio pop-rock on Worlds in Collision, but Ray Gun Suitcase is up there with the first two for me.

losthighway wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:40 pm Pretenders II is similarly solid to their debut.

Yes, it is. Then they lost their bass player and guitar player.

Their third album has got the big hits, but doesn't rock like the first two.

rsmurphy wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:59 pm Both Wire and Mission of Burma released bracing works in their latter years. Not really sure if MoB counts, though, as their second LP was released twenty-something odd years later.

Still not as good as their first LP.

Yeah, most bands run out of songs. Its that simple. A band will toil in the clubs for years, maybe releasing a single here and there and refining the set, winnowing out the crap songs. If done right, the first LP captures them at their peak. Then they tour for a year or two, while writing songs during soundcheck and on breaks. Two weeks after you get back from Europe, you go to the studio again to cut 12 more songs. No wonder the second album is often lackluster.

Exception - Thin Lizzy - took them a while to find their niche.

With Burma, The Obliterati holds up pretty well; in fact when I saw them 10 years ago those songs got just as much audience response as the early tunes. The other reunion records.. well, if it kept them active and touring they served their purpose.

Sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it's just a matter of opinion.

For instance I have differing opinions as several already stated on this thread:
I like Flip Your Wig just as much as New Day Rising.
The first two B-52's records are the only good ones. Fuck Cosmic Thing.
My favorite Bad Brains is I Against I (a very not popular opinion, but it's also the first one I heard).
While I prefer Pretenders and II, Learning to Crawl is also just as great. In a different way. Don't care about the rest.
The first great Prince record is Prince s/t. His first is terrible.

Having said that, I'm probably more often guilty of preferring the first couple of records. But here are some bands that I think have their best records in the middle:
Sonic Youth, Afghan Whigs, Spoon, Tortoise, Stereolab, Trans Am, Wilco, Sly and the Family Stone, Stevie Wonder, Soundgarden