At least in the category of Rock.

Think of a genre that's arisen since Rock 'n' Roll first started splitting into genres (so, I guess early 50s). Chances are someone, somewhere, is cheerfully making new music in that genre... No matter how obscure or niche.

Now, I can't speak to Rap/Hip Hop or the various species of Funk/Disco/Dance and Soul since I'm not as deeply invested in those styles (though I do like some things that come out of the Funk/Disco/Dance and Soul scenes), but is it the same there or are innovation and invention still possible (Rap is no longer a fresh faced kid from the inner cities)?

And does it matter so long as the music made is engaging and speaks to your soul? Is endless progress really achievable? Or desirable?

I mean... Isn't that how we got to Nu Metal?

I think the main thing that is different in the 21st century is that if you look for something, you will find it.

I also think all artists start out derivative and find their own thing over time, and it was ever thus. Art will always be reinventing itself.

Anthony Flack wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:38 pm I think the main thing that is different in the 21st century is that if you look for something, you will find it.

I also think all artists start out derivative and find their own thing over time, and it was ever thus. Art will always be reinventing itself.

Agreed.

But most rock music I think of is a matter of tweaking something old. The good stuff is just interesting or particularly well executed. It's kind of a self-elegizing thing since near the beginning. Like after they weeded out the black people who got it all started. Okay, okay, they pop up in the introductory essay, but the grand self-replication of commercial white rock tends gobble up the picture. I don't want to get into a rant about the racial convolutions of Clapton-esque shit-baggery that permeate rock history. It's beyond me to really grasp it.

I was a kid through the 80s and early 90s, so I only experienced "new" rock music as either abominable "innovations" (like nu-metal or whatever), retro (the 90s were super retro) or already 20 years old. I had to get to the cool 80s stuff by digging through what bands like Nirvana talked about liking in interviews.

I'm not too worried about all this. I'm not big on genres as hard lines anyway. That said, this century, most of the stuff I like has just been digging in or hyper-fixating on either very niche aspects of rock or a very narrow aspect of it. Those explorations can be good or bad, but I like some of it. Like, Sunn O))) didn't invent anything, but I've learned to appreciate that ultra-magnified thing they do. Of course Earth did it back in the 80s, but whatever I guess. Post-Rock is kinda silly, but yeah, dynamics like that are worth a good zooming in on. (And the older and more sober I've been the last decade, the more stoner my tastes have become. Whether that is mere retreat into soothing is a legitimate but different question.)

I mean, Rock has become a boutique entity. The modern internet has facilitated this. You can have entire micro-genres dedicated to whatever rabbit hole tickles your pickle. This suits me fine. Sure there are lame parts, and it can be easy to find the gems among the abundance of options. Retrospective indulgences are also a part of the boutique experience. Just last night I couldn't sleep to I went to You Tube and put on something from Les Rallizes Dénudés. Then, as I was settling down to sleepy town, this, whatever it is, came on. And I liked it. I can't complain about that too much.

I don't know where shit bands like The Strokes fit into all of this, but I don't care about them at all. They might even be dead by now or all married to republican heiresses for all I know. Anyway, the 90s lie of making odd or underground music a regular feature of the mainstream did not pan out. I am glad to be able to see good bands in a club setting. I never feel like I missed out by not seeing Aerosmith in an arena. If you do, then I'm sure the Foo Fighters will cover "Sweet Emotion" for you if you pay them enough.

Rock music is like jazz now in that it is a niche thing mostly liked by old people and nerds. Kids these days want to be Youtube influencers, not play in a mouldy old band. They want to watch five second video clips of people screaming and tipping custard on their head.

Anthony Flack wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:16 am Rock music is like jazz now in that it is a niche thing mostly liked by old people and nerds.

Eh, it's just not as popular right now. But there's always a band that comes around like Guns 'N Roses, Nirvana, The White Stripes, The Strokes, etc, to get the kids to say, "hey, this is pretty awesome." It'll happen again.

"Rock and roll will never die. The formula's too good." - Tom Petty

Anthony Flack wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:16 am Rock music is like jazz now in that it is a niche thing mostly liked by old people and nerds. Kids these days want to be Youtube influencers, not play in a mouldy old band. They want to watch five second video clips of people screaming and tipping custard on their head.

Jan Wenner, the billionaire cocaine dumpster and founder of rolling stone magazine recently made headlines expressing a very similar sentiment.

I sadly agree.

My teenage niece and nephews barely listen to music. They like to watch videos of other people playing video games. It’s so dystopian and upsetting

zircona1 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:21 am

Anthony Flack wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:16 am Rock music is like jazz now in that it is a niche thing mostly liked by old people and nerds.

Eh, it's just not as popular right now. But there's always a band that comes around like Guns 'N Roses, Nirvana, The White Stripes, The Strokes, etc, to get the kids to say, "hey, this is pretty awesome." It'll happen again.

I'm not so sure. Sure, there will be novel throwbacks that come along every few years and legacy acts will still be around but as the dominant form of popular music I think it's done.

(I'm not really counting pop acts that have 3 guitars on stage for some reason)

zircona1 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:21 am

Anthony Flack wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:16 am Rock music is like jazz now in that it is a niche thing mostly liked by old people and nerds.

Eh, it's just not as popular right now. But there's always a band that comes around like Guns 'N Roses, Nirvana, The White Stripes, The Strokes, etc, to get the kids to say, "hey, this is pretty awesome." It'll happen again.

"Rock and roll will never die. The formula's too good." - Tom Petty

The Strokes are 20 years old.

handsbloodyhands wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:48 am

zircona1 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:21 am

Anthony Flack wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:16 am Rock music is like jazz now in that it is a niche thing mostly liked by old people and nerds.

Eh, it's just not as popular right now. But there's always a band that comes around like Guns 'N Roses, Nirvana, The White Stripes, The Strokes, etc, to get the kids to say, "hey, this is pretty awesome." It'll happen again.

"Rock and roll will never die. The formula's too good." - Tom Petty

The Strokes are 20 years old.

Rock music seems to be doing just fine here in Austin. Sure, the kids aren’t always interested in watching middle-aged men play noise rock, but I see a lot of enthusiasm from people my daughter’s age and younger. The magic is still there.

It's worth mentioning that Rock and Roll was like an immaculate conception, and pretty much perfect on landing. If you just look at the marquee names from the first wave, and try to listen with fresh ears, it's unimpeachable, and a quantum leap in popular music. Everybody is so interested in innovation and being clever, but it's mostly unnecessary. All the rock bands we remember weren't born in a lab, but rather a natural outpouring of an anointed but unglamorous few. I agree that we're pretty much done, as interests have moved elsewhere. It doesn't rule out that somebody could knock out something memorable any time now. I hope so.