zorg wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:49 pm If you're gonna go Japanese, Zeni Geva is at least in the realm of heaviness.

Much as I love Zeni Geva, and they're undoubtedly heavy, I think they plough too narrow a furrow to be grouped in with the three in the poll.

VaticanShotglass wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:02 pm Boredoms: Any advice about where to get started with this band? It's always been in my periphery, but I never dug in.

If you've the time, the most fun way might actually be to respect the chronology; if not, I'd be predictable and say Vision, Creation, Newsun, and fan out from there.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:00 am

ChudFusk wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:21 pm This thread is quickly plummeting in an indie rock nerdboy tailspin toward an inevitable suggestion of either Silkworm, The Replacements or Cheap Trick.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote:The more I think about it, the more I consider Melt Banana.

fixed your post

Boredoms. Longevity, distinct phases throughout career, singular, live heaviness. Tick all the boxes, odd as it may seem, although granted lose a few points for early career goofy humour.

Fixed your thinking.

All those things could be said about Melt Banana, and regardless of how you feel about Boredoms, Melt Banana are sonically much heavier.

Gents, gents, gents. It's bad enough that you're confusing noisiness with heaviness, but let me lay down a helpful template to distinguish appropriate candidates:

Zeni Geva, Harvey Milk - frowning = appropriate
Boredoms, Melt Banana - no frowning = not appropriate

Glad we could clear that up.

M.H wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:31 am Gents, gents, gents. It's bad enough that you're confusing noisiness with heaviness, but let me lay down a helpful template to distinguish appropriate candidates:

Zeni Geva, Harvey Milk - frowning = appropriate
Boredoms, Melt Banana - no frowning = not appropriate

Glad we could clear that up.

Not confusing anything mate. Boredoms from late 90s onwards is heavy, end of. I agree with you on the frowny bit mind, which is why I said you have to knock some points off of early Boredoms. That said, I've always heard a self-deprecating streak throughout Harvey Milk that'd knock points off too.

ChudFusk wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:05 pm Have you heard Melt Banana? They're well within the realm, the shire and the hobbit hole of heaviness.

I mean come on

I actually saw them and Zeni Geva on the same bill, so I am qualified to assess that Melt-Banana was fast, noisy, and harsh, but not heavy in the way we’re discussing here.

M.H wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:31 amZeni Geva, Harvey Milk - frowning = appropriate
Boredoms, Melt Banana - no frowning = not appropriate

Good point.

Look I'm not arguing for Melt Banana to take the 4th spot, I'm just saying that they're more qualified than The Boredoms as far as their sound. I haven't heard anything from The Boredoms, as interesting as they are, that I would call heavy. If we're talking Japanese bands, The Gerogerigegege might outweigh them both.

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:47 am Not confusing anything mate. Boredoms from late 90s onwards is heavy, end of. I agree with you on the frowny bit mind, which is why I said you have to knock some points off of early Boredoms.

Like Vision Creation Newsun era? I mean, I love that record, I like a lot of Boredoms, I've seen them play that music live - heavy? Nah. Not how I hear it, at least.

I'd say Crash Worship did that kind of sound way closer to the kind of vibe we're talking about (and were a massive influence on Neurosis tracks like 'Cleanse' too).

A_Man_Who_Tries wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:03 am

VaticanShotglass wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:02 pm Boredoms: Any advice about where to get started with this band? It's always been in my periphery, but I never dug in.

If you've the time, the most fun way might actually be to respect the chronology; if not, I'd be predictable and say Vision, Creation, Newsun, and fan out from there.

Thanks for the advice. I often go chronological, but these days I don't have the time unless I get hooked on something that inspires such a dive. Currently, i can't even draw to mind anything of theirs, so this is a fresh start.

ChudFusk wrote:

M.H wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:31 amZeni Geva, Harvey Milk - frowning = appropriate
Boredoms, Melt Banana - no frowning = not appropriate

Good point.

Look I'm not arguing for Melt Banana to take the 4th spot, I'm just saying that they're more qualified than The Boredoms as far as their sound. I haven't heard anything from The Boredoms, as interesting as they are, that I would call heavy. If we're talking Japanese bands, The Gerogerigegege might outweigh them both.

I got tickets to see Melt Banana next week in Chapel Hill. Heavy they may be, among many things, but I find their music far, far too joyful to be anything close to the somber-heavy this thread is targeting. Honestly, probably the most joyful and simply fun live music I've ever heard.

Actually, of this thread's main contenders, I've listened most to Swans, but even then only the early and late stuff. I've enjoyed what Neurosis I've listened to, but I've never owned their records, so I don't have a mental map of their work. What Harvey Milk I've heard fits the somber-heavy, frown face vibe, but did they have many albums?

My favorite Boredoms record, by far, is Soul Discharge, and I'm familiar w/the Super Ae and Vision Creation Newsun material, as well. Early Boredoms is way too spastic for the purposes of this poll (see also: Melt Banana) and later Boredoms has pronounced hippie and Krautrock vibes, which don't quite fit into the "heavy" being defined here, big and enveloping as those records are. Reiterating that Zeni Geva is definitely the closest thing I can think of to a Japanese pick.

Crash Worship, much like Hungary's Vágtázó Halottkémek (aka VHK), has elements of what we're talking about but more of a tribal, chaotic, almost psychedelic feel. Even though some of the music is not a million miles from very early (and very late) Swans, and both bands markedly influenced Neurosis.

I still think that Gore (especially the grey and monolithic first three albums) and Caspar Brötzmann Massaker (which is a bit like Hendrix fronting early Swans w/major Teutonic bleakness) would be the logical fourth band here.