eephus wrote: Every great bar or restaurant is the product of a vision, always self-centered, often idiosyncratic, sometimes clueless, occasionally maniacal, and the Hideout--a great bar--is no different.

I can't make any representations as to how hard it is to work there specifically, but the music industry is a meat grinder, and booking shows would fucking suck from where I sit--I can't even do it for one band. Doing it anytime in the last 2.5yrs? Forget it. Brutal. I feel bad for everyone involved as far as that goes.

100%. And truly some of the scummiest, most self centered and narcissistic people are in the 'venue' side of the industry. And it's pretty disappointing that the 'grassroots' level is no exception to this rule. Much like with cops, what the fuck would possibly motivate someone to pursue this career?

Edit to add: That's a rhetorical question, as we all know the answer is: having power and influence over a music community. Any claims of providing a space for artists to flourish is 99.9% bs when it's a business that depends of income to survive.

rsmurphy wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:39 pm

AdamN wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:42 am Not a specific show per se, but it seems that The Hideout has been run by shitheads. Consider my cats shocked.

This country has a lot more work to do. Moving in the right direction requires serious effort and extensive self-reflection. The Hideout's kneejerk response was a grouping of corporate speak that sounded more like the handling of a PR exec and not a group of people who have been serving Chicago's music and political community for years.

I think a lot of white gen-x liberals who came of age in the Clinton-Obama era need a similar wake-up call, personally and/or collectively. Perhaps people with kids growing up into wise teens and young adults might already be feeling this. Hopefully they are. It’s 2022 not 1995 anymore, our city/country/society has changed on so many levels. We all need to listen to the up and coming generations, especially the POC, rather than get reactionary or try to tell them how to behave. They are the ones who are the agents of change, who are on the ground and in the streets actually doing the work when it comes to transforming a lot of these outdated systems. It’s about time we start sharing the power and the leadership as we move forward.

The Hideout is very emblematic of this aging community and I think this controversy/conversation is necessary to kinda shake things up. The venue has ALWAYS operated in a tight-knit, smug bubble, now mostly made up of (now) 40+ year old white middle/upper class liberal indies and hippies. These are the kinds of exclusive communities and unspoken social boundaries that need to be exposed and deconstructed, across the board. Hopefully they can get with the times because traditionally they always seemed well intentioned. However, it looks like they are going to cop out and treat this as just another employment dispute and put up BS boilerplate half-ass statements as a reply. If they don’t get in there and actually make this right, then they will have a long row to hoe, especially if they expect to hold onto their cultural power as a progressive institution in Chicago.

As a artist/colleague/customer I have the power to make the personal choice of not patronizing this venue until they prove themselves worthy of my business again.

turnbullac wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 2:51 pm I think a lot of white gen-x liberals who came of age in the Clinton-Obama era need a similar wake-up call, personally and/or collectively. Perhaps people with kids growing up into wise teens and young adults might already be feeling this. Hopefully they are. It’s 2022 not 1995 anymore, our city/country/society has changed on so many levels. We all need to listen to the up and coming generations, especially the POC, rather than get reactionary or try to tell them how to behave. They are the ones who are the agents of change, who are on the ground and in the streets actually doing the work when it comes to transforming a lot of these outdated systems. It’s about time we start sharing the power and the leadership as we move forward.

The Hideout is very emblematic of this aging community and I think this controversy/conversation is necessary to kinda shake things up. The venue has ALWAYS operated in a tight-knit, smug bubble, now mostly made up of (now) 40+ year old white middle/upper class liberal indies and hippies. These are the kinds of exclusive communities and unspoken social boundaries that need to be exposed and deconstructed, across the board. Hopefully they can get with the times because traditionally they always seemed well intentioned. However, it looks like they are going to cop out and treat this as just another employment dispute and put up BS boilerplate half-ass statements as a reply. If they don’t get in there and actually make this right, then they will have a long row to hoe, especially if they expect to hold onto their cultural power as a progressive institution in Chicago.

As a artist/colleague/customer I have the power to make the personal choice of not patronizing this venue until they prove themselves worthy of my business again.

I agree with everything posted but your end point gives me pause. The last time I was at Hideout was for Brad's memorial, and that was the first time I noticed black people working behind the bar...all two of them and at the same time. This is just my perspective, but to punish the owners would be punishing their staff of all ethnicities. Far be it from me to tell folks how to spend their money, especially when they are doing it from the vantage point of being allies, but cutting them off might cause injury to the unintended. I don't know, man. Perhaps I'm caping for the wrong people; I'm not defending the owners in any sense, just thinking about collateral damage.

rsmurphy wrote: I agree with everything posted but your end point gives me pause. The last time I was at Hideout was for Brad's memorial, and that was the first time I noticed black people working behind the bar...all two of them and at the same time. This is just my perspective, but to punish the owners would be punishing their staff of all ethnicities. Far be it from me to tell folks how to spend their money, especially when they are doing it from the vantage point of being allies, but cutting them off might cause injury to the unintended. I don't know, man. Perhaps I'm caping for the wrong people; I'm not defending the owners in any sense, just thinking about collateral damage.

Well, everybody just lost their jobs there in time for the holidays, so there's yer collateral damage.

Good job, everybody. See ya at the Bottle, or Schuba's.

I've seen posts from mutual real life friends stating that they'd never play Hideout again.

This is wrong, but I understand why they've chosen to temporarily shutter their doors. Remaining open would have caused more grief and potential direct action from protestors and the online community. More bands would boycott, other bands would pressure bands to boycott...it says a lot of things about this country that we can't sit at a goddamn table to have an open discussion without burning down the house around it.

In the middle of this shitstorm sits Mykele Deville, who has already been the target of online hate from people who I presumed should have known better. I hope he remains safe mentally and physically.

eephus wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:08 pm

rsmurphy wrote: I agree with everything posted but your end point gives me pause. The last time I was at Hideout was for Brad's memorial, and that was the first time I noticed black people working behind the bar...all two of them and at the same time. This is just my perspective, but to punish the owners would be punishing their staff of all ethnicities. Far be it from me to tell folks how to spend their money, especially when they are doing it from the vantage point of being allies, but cutting them off might cause injury to the unintended. I don't know, man. Perhaps I'm caping for the wrong people; I'm not defending the owners in any sense, just thinking about collateral damage.

Well, everybody just lost their jobs there in time for the holidays, so there's yer collateral damage.

Good job, everybody. See ya at the Bottle, or Schuba's.

A friend of mine worked for a well known ad agency here in Dallas where the owner was recorded making horrible remarks about his clientele, and as a result, many accounts ended their relationship with the company. I don't know how many people lost their jobs overall, but it was significant. She lost her job after working on the same accounts for 10+ years.

The owner lost basically nothing, at least in real terms.

She and many of the co-workers began their own independent thing, and lured back one of the bigger accounts, but that took time, and in the interim it was difficult to make ends meet with the new company, health insurance, etc.

I don't know the particulars of the situation at the Hideout outside of what's been described in this thread and the links, but yeah. Doesn't sound good!

rsmurphy wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:21 am ...it says a lot of things about this country that we can't sit at a goddamn table to have an open discussion without burning down the house around it.

This. I believe the accounts of the owners being out of touch but JFC in the grand scheme they are on the right side of things, and capable of evolving. Hopefully that will be the outcome of all this but if not, hopefully closing yet another Chicago venue was worth it for a few to get their Twitter rage on.

There's a fresh new thread for this. Should we keep this one on topic?

This upcoming Sunday, Nov 6, Patty & Selma (FM Sowley & friend Desmond) will be getting hype on the decks at California Clipper.

Come and throw shapes. Have yourself a real good time.

Stuck @ the Bottle tonight.