dontfeartheringo wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:21 am He says a typical night out, with a couple of beers and maybe some tapas, runs about $12-15 Eu.

That's easily $100 in Los Angeles.

I've been up and down the eastern side of Spain. Barcelona is great, indeed, but I also loved Valencia, Sevilla, Cadiz, Tarragona, Granada. I liked Cadiz, Valencia, and Tarragona the most.

eephus wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:29 pm If we ever leave Chicago, it'll probably be for another city, and it's pretty unlikely we leave. As I have said before, Chicago definitely might wear you out, but you'll never wear out Chicago.

Years ago, I met a guy who said of Chicago, “90% of the time you love it, and 10% of the time you absolutely hate it, whereas in the suburbs it’s always just fine.” (“Fine” wasn’t really a compliment.) I’ve repeated that remark a thousand times since then. I can’t imagine ever leaving Chicago, even if the place sometimes gets to be too much.

I do daydream about owning a remote cabin, though—in Iceland or the northern Rockies or Cascades or even the Black Hills. But I’m not built for the reality—the isolation, the grueling winters, the political landscape, mice and other critters. Short-term rentals seem more like the thing.

The suburbs make no sense to me. You get all of the shitty traffic of the city and all of the opioids of the country. You get more living space and yard space, which are great for people who want to spend their weekends cleaning. And so many people who relocate to the burbs (for reasons other than to be closer to their families) immediately go into sales mode. A new brewpub opened close by! How exciting! You should come by! You’ll like it more than you think!

Waffles for suburbs that went up in the fifties and sixties and still have lots of the cool old bungalows.

Wood Goblin wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:29 pm Years ago, I met a guy who said of Chicago, “90% of the time you love it, and 10% of the time you absolutely hate it, whereas in the suburbs it’s always just fine.” (“Fine” wasn’t really a compliment.) I’ve repeated that remark a thousand times since then. I can’t imagine ever leaving Chicago, even if the place sometimes gets to be too much.

...

The suburbs make no sense to me. You get all of the shitty traffic of the city and all of the opioids of the country. You get more living space and yard space, which are great for people who want to spend their weekends cleaning. And so many people who relocate to the burbs (for reasons other than to be closer to their families) immediately go into sales mode. A new brewpub opened close by! How exciting! You should come by! You’ll like it more than you think!

Waffles for suburbs that went up in the fifties and sixties and still have lots of the cool old bungalows.

As a lifelong suburbanite, I somewhat feel obligated to defend them, but will instead just say that not all suburbs are the same. Some are great (they more or less offer the best of the city and the country), and some really do suck.

I've thought on more than one occasion about doing the opposite of the subject of this thread, i.e., 'moving into the big city'. I'd absolutely love to live without a car. Maybe in a few years.

I’m being a bit facetious. Oak Park is pretty great, as are a handful for others.

Wood Goblin wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:29 pm
Waffles for suburbs that went up in the fifties and sixties and still have lots of the cool old bungalows.

This is where the suburbs concept gets slippery for me. My first years were in one outskirt of Denver (Edgewater) and my last two decades have been another (Englewood). When Denver was the size of Kansas City these were far enough from "downtown" to feel like they were separate. Now they're an old part of a metro area with their own histories and downtowns, a handful of miles from the city center. They're not entirely urban but they don't feel like you're in the strip malls of Tempe, or the nu housing development purgatory of identical buildings.

These neighborhoods are considered "city" in parts of Portland, Chicago or St. Paul but you don't see many buildings taller than 2 stories. They're like the little Brooklyn to smaller cities' Manhattan.

I don't know what you call them (old burbs?) but I think they're the best of all worlds.

Wood Goblin wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:29 pm The suburbs make no sense to me.

It’s a pretty straight make-life-with-kids-less-stessfull equation. Also if you have hobbies that require garage or yard space. It’s nice to be the worst people on the block for once, too.

I think the only people who use libraries anymore are children, old people who need help logging into hotmail, and homeless people.

Having lived and worked in the country and in the city, I'd just say cities suck. Some suck more than others, though.

I miss the place where I grew up; pretty much a small village, full of grass, trees, cows and such; If you needed to go to the goddamn big city, it was just 10 mins away or less by car.

Ahh the country... nothing like waking up in the morning with Motorhead through the speakers at max vol. I think cattle dug it.

Distances between places here in Spain (or Europe) have nothing to do with the ones in USA, though.

I mean, even from the most "isolated" region here you can get to a city with a 2 hour drive or so.

Vibracobra wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:13 am I miss the place where I grew up; pretty much a small village, full of grass, trees, cows and such; If you needed to go to the goddamn big city, it was just 10 mins away or less by car.

.....

Distances between places here in Spain (or Europe) have nothing to do with the ones in USA, though.

I mean, even from the most "isolated" region here you can get to a city with a 2 hour drive or so.

Ah yeah, European country life seems like a whole different deal. True you're never really that isolated (especially if it's train accessible), plus as far as I'm aware you don't have anything like MAGA heads or the KKK (SPLC lists some hate groups though they don't seem particularly rural).

SW Michigan and to a lesser degree, Door County, has some ex-Chicago/Milwaukee creative types (either as second homes, or full time) and that seems ideal to me: enjoy the quiet life but not completely give up on interesting shops in the area and being able to have a small friend/peer group. And yeah being able to blast music with the windows or screen door open sounds appealing. But that's probably as 'country' as I'd go.

I have notions of leaving the city for something smaller and a little slower. Right now we live in a neighborhood inside the city itself - Dallas has a TON of sprawl and there are endless connected suburbs where people have fled the city proper for "safety" and "affordability," but we're right in the thick of the city proper.

Ours is one of the fastest growing citiies in the country, (5th in https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/09/fastest ... itute.html this list) People are moving here in droves for jobs that follow businesses who love the tax situation here. This doesn't bother me all that much, because they're mostly moving out to the burbs where I don't go. It's kinda funny to me because Tx basically invited everyone here as an alternative to other pro business destinations, and now everyone bitches about how bad traffic is, how many people there are, how much housing has increased, etc. I'm always like "Y'all threw the party and now you're mad everyone is here?! The fuck??" There are even radio ads for local business that mock California ex-pats.

I was driving Uber for a while there in between desk jobs, and it was noticeable how many transplants were here. It was pretty rare that I'd come across native Dallasites. That could just be the nature of being a driver in the city with a large, rich private school in the middle of it (SMU.)

The biggest problem to me is the affordable hngousi situation and the overall cars/street thing. We have nothing that approaches reasonable public transportation, and despite Dallas's efforts to remedy this, the city can't keep pace with the people moving in. Everyone has at least 1 car/adult here it seems like, and even in my little bubble of a neighborhood you can feel it. Sitting through lights for 4-5 cycles because there are so many people out, highways constantly closed down, persistent accidents along construction zones from poorly marked areas, the constant sounds and activities from new construction, etc. Austin is worse, but not by a lot, and it's not really an ideal for living for me.

Now I work exclusively from home, so I don't feel it as much and I rarely leave my little comfort zone. I've got my record store, my grocery store, my tattoo shops, a decent local hardware store, some good resale and pawn shops all in a reasonable distance from the house.

Nevertheless, we were in New Mexico this spring and I fell in love with the mountains again. I think a nice little 1-3 acre spot in between Santa Fe and ABQ would suit me just fine. Santa Fe is a great little town, and if you need the shit you need from a real city you can truck it over to ABQ. Having a little space to spread out and breathe sounds really nice to me nowadays......

losthighway wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 4:50 pm

Wood Goblin wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:29 pm
Waffles for suburbs that went up in the fifties and sixties and still have lots of the cool old bungalows.

This is where the suburbs concept gets slippery for me. My first years were in one outskirt of Denver (Edgewater) and my last two decades have been another (Englewood). When Denver was the size of Kansas City these were far enough from "downtown" to feel like they were separate. Now they're an old part of a metro area with their own histories and downtowns, a handful of miles from the city center. They're not entirely urban but they don't feel like you're in the strip malls of Tempe, or the nu housing development purgatory of identical buildings.

These neighborhoods are considered "city" in parts of Portland, Chicago or St. Paul but you don't see many buildings taller than 2 stories. They're like the little Brooklyn to smaller cities' Manhattan.

I don't know what you call them (old burbs?) but I think they're the best of all worlds.

Denver has just lost SOOOO MUCH of what made it special. It makes me so sad. I grew up a couple blocks off University and all the classic places are gone. Bonnie Brae Pizza, Campus Lounge and losing Saucy Noodle was a dagger to my heart.