Hi everybody. I'm an old member from this forum but I prefer not to share my identity for this post. I apologize for this. I know it's against the rules but I feel SO uncomfortable about this issue.
I have been playing with a new [musician] since my old bandmate quit the band.
It's been a couple of months now. This new guy seemed such a cool and kind person and he's the best [musician] I could ever wish for, so much better than me. A huge talent and competence in writing and playing. I tried so many and he was the best by far. I was so, so happy when I found him.
But last time, he confessed he was in jail for a severe sex crime.
I will not go into details but he told me his version, which came out to be full of (substantial) lies and a lot watered down (Google doesn't forget…). I think since he's been out of jail he's facing the heaviest social stigma and isolation you can imagine nowadays. So maybe he toned down the story out of fear, or maybe he's just a pathological liar/manipulator, or maybe he has the typical "denial" thing most sex offenders have. I dunno.
I believe everyone deserves a second chance in life, I believe in rehabilitation, and I would not want to turn him down, as a human being, although with such a dark and creepy and deplorable past he can't even talk about it. I believe even most old friends abandoned him (he's blatantly scared of going out and meet people) and I feel somewhat sorry for his disgrace, although I cannot condone what he did.
When I read threads like this, seems like such criminals should live the rest of their lives outside from society, and they don't deserve forgiveness, ever.
I feel I'm doing something which morals I'm not sure about, and I'm scared of being manipulated or to fall a victim of some "I will save you" syndrome.
Please give me some advice. I feel so depressed, too involved, and fragile.
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
82^ I'd be way out of my depth if I pretended I knew what the best thing to do in a situation like that was. Like most people I suspect I'd back out, but that's avoidance and self preservation, not a deep ethical decision.
It does give me some questions. I've been fully opposed to the death penalty for all of my adult life. That's an established point of view that I think anyone who's curious can understand. But saying that you don't think people should be killed for heinous acts against your fellow humans is simpler than living amongst people who've committed them, or deciding how much they deserve to be integrated into society. It brings up hard questions about redemption.
I wonder what your instincts tell you while you're around this person. Does he seems like someone who would do it again? Are we capable of sensing that?
Also, if this musical project is to have a public face, are you prepared to have people who know of his crime? Would you feel strong enough about second chances that you'd be willing to literally stand by someone who'd done whatever terrible things he did?
I suspect the fact your post is anonymous- which I don't fault you for- is answer enough. It might be too great a cost.
It does give me some questions. I've been fully opposed to the death penalty for all of my adult life. That's an established point of view that I think anyone who's curious can understand. But saying that you don't think people should be killed for heinous acts against your fellow humans is simpler than living amongst people who've committed them, or deciding how much they deserve to be integrated into society. It brings up hard questions about redemption.
I wonder what your instincts tell you while you're around this person. Does he seems like someone who would do it again? Are we capable of sensing that?
Also, if this musical project is to have a public face, are you prepared to have people who know of his crime? Would you feel strong enough about second chances that you'd be willing to literally stand by someone who'd done whatever terrible things he did?
I suspect the fact your post is anonymous- which I don't fault you for- is answer enough. It might be too great a cost.
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
83The rest of Neurosis deserve better than this becoming the catch-all thread for wrong 'uns, that's for sure.
at war with bellends
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
84Sorry to hear about that, that is a tricky situation (and FTR I don't think there are any rules here about not being anonymous).
If the person has truly acknowledged what they did (big question mark there), received an adequate amount of punishment for the offense (in our biased system that may not be the case), then yes I think forgiveness can be earned over time. HOWEVER, I wouldn't expect the rest of the world to agree, and your band may be forever tainted by this. More important than some band, people may distance themselves from you based on how you decide to proceed.
That can seem unfair to the offender, and you, but what about the victim? Will they ever be able to fully move on with life..
I think there are 2 decisions to make here: whether to keep him in the band, and whether to cut him out of your life entirely. Not that I or anyone here is an expert on what to do here. I wish you well, and this won't be an easy decision.
(might be appropriate to move this all to a different thread. edit: yes what AMWT said)
If the person has truly acknowledged what they did (big question mark there), received an adequate amount of punishment for the offense (in our biased system that may not be the case), then yes I think forgiveness can be earned over time. HOWEVER, I wouldn't expect the rest of the world to agree, and your band may be forever tainted by this. More important than some band, people may distance themselves from you based on how you decide to proceed.
That can seem unfair to the offender, and you, but what about the victim? Will they ever be able to fully move on with life..
I think there are 2 decisions to make here: whether to keep him in the band, and whether to cut him out of your life entirely. Not that I or anyone here is an expert on what to do here. I wish you well, and this won't be an easy decision.
(might be appropriate to move this all to a different thread. edit: yes what AMWT said)
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
852 ways to go with this:I prefer not wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 am Hi everybody. I'm an old member from this forum but I prefer not to share my identity for this post. I apologize for this. I know it's against the rules but I feel SO uncomfortable about this issue.
I have been playing with a new [musician] since my old bandmate quit the band.
It's been a couple of months now. This new guy seemed such a cool and kind person and he's the best [musician] I could ever wish for, so much better than me. A huge talent and competence in writing and playing. I tried so many and he was the best by far. I was so, so happy when I found him.
But last time, he confessed he was in jail for a severe sex crime.
I will not go into details but he told me his version, which came out to be full of (substantial) lies and a lot watered down (Google doesn't forget…). I think since he's been out of jail he's facing the heaviest social stigma and isolation you can imagine nowadays. So maybe he toned down the story out of fear, or maybe he's just a pathological liar/manipulator, or maybe he has the typical "denial" thing most sex offenders have. I dunno.
I believe everyone deserves a second chance in life, I believe in rehabilitation, and I would not want to turn him down, as a human being, although with such a dark and creepy and deplorable past he can't even talk about it. I believe even most old friends abandoned him (he's blatantly scared of going out and meet people) and I feel somewhat sorry for his disgrace, although I cannot condone what he did.
When I read threads like this, seems like such criminals should live the rest of their lives outside from society, and they don't deserve forgiveness, ever.
I feel I'm doing something which morals I'm not sure about, and I'm scared of being manipulated or to fall a victim of some "I will save you" syndrome.
Please give me some advice. I feel so depressed, too involved, and fragile.
1: Tell him "hey, you're a great musician but I can't risk being associated with your crime and I can't help rehabilitate your public image."
2. Lean into it! Use his notoriety for free publicity and clout in the transgressive music scene. Call your band something like "50% Innocent" or "Good Guy and the Chomo"
OK, a more serious answer; trust your gut that this guy is not being honest, will never be fully honest, and that it's not your responsibility. If you keep doing music with him then you're basically saying that your desire for a bandmate with his skills is greater than your disapproval of his behavior. If you stay friends with him then I hope you have a really good reason because if he hasn't truly fully changed then he will use you to maintain his alternate reality where he is the victim.
If I seem glib, I had a close relative who did 18 years in prison for something that I will never know the whole truth about, but that was somewhere in the range of Really Bad to Abhorrent, and I also have professional experience with both abusers and victims, so I am not just talking out of my ass.
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
86most likely a little bit of A, a little B, a little C.I prefer not wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 am So maybe he toned down the story out of fear, or maybe he's just a pathological liar/manipulator, or maybe he has the typical "denial" thing most sex offenders have.
if he can't be honest, you owe him nothing. he needs professional help, not a band.
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
87Yeah I mean none of those are good options. I can't blame a sex offender for not wanting to share their history with a new acquaintance, any more than I would blame them for not telling the cashier at the supermarket, but if you are entering into a friendship and/or creative partnership then they have to respect you enough to let you know who you are associating yourself with. If he is unable to recognize or unwilling to acknowledge that, then he hasn't reformed and is a liability.hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:43 pmmost likely a little bit of A, a little B, a little C.I prefer not wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:55 am So maybe he toned down the story out of fear, or maybe he's just a pathological liar/manipulator, or maybe he has the typical "denial" thing most sex offenders have.
if he can't be honest, you owe him nothing. he needs professional help, not a band.
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
88LOL. In this thread about the band Neurosis people are asking exceedingly stupid questions like, "Should I stay in a band with a sex offender?"
How about..."NO". Fucking DUH.
How about..."NO". Fucking DUH.
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
89Agreed.Roeder wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:11 am LOL. In this thread about the band Neurosis people are asking exceedingly stupid questions like, "Should I stay in a band with a sex offender?"
How about..."NO". Fucking DUH.
Look, Roeder, in no way did I mean to imply that Neurosis and Arcade Fire were in even the same universe, aesthetically or ethically or in any way at all. I tried to make that clear in a post in this thread from August last year, which you may have missed, so just FYI:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=70230&p=804984#p804984I wrote:The contrasts between the two bands are many and marked, with the single exception of having frontpersons that were abruptly and at almost the same time found to be crap dudes in terms of violence towards intimate partners. </end_derailment>
Re: It Appears that Neurosis is Done
90From Jason Roeder's Instagram:
I am no longer a touring musician so I will be selling off most (possibly all) of my equipment and belongings.
I can't stand FB marketplace so I'll be posting up here and on CL. Drums and cymbals, etc up soon.
Midas M32 mixer for sale. DN32-LIVE card installed. Includes road case. Excellent clean condition. Pickup or delivery in the Portland OR area. (sorry no shipping) Serious offers only via DM. (if you know these mixers you know what to offer)
Thanks for reading.
Damn, dude. Very sorry to see you give it all up.
I am no longer a touring musician so I will be selling off most (possibly all) of my equipment and belongings.
I can't stand FB marketplace so I'll be posting up here and on CL. Drums and cymbals, etc up soon.
Midas M32 mixer for sale. DN32-LIVE card installed. Includes road case. Excellent clean condition. Pickup or delivery in the Portland OR area. (sorry no shipping) Serious offers only via DM. (if you know these mixers you know what to offer)
Thanks for reading.
Damn, dude. Very sorry to see you give it all up.
