Wood Goblin wrote:L’Argent might be the worst-edited film by a major figure I’ve ever seen.

Is it me, or is shitposting more frequent these days?

Wood Goblin wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:23 am I sort of get the complaint about Altman, who I don’t particularly enjoy. Even my favorite movie of his (The Long Goodbye) has a few scenes that, painfully, look like improv exercises in an Intro to Acting class.

I saw Mouchette a number of years ago and loved it, but I also can’t remember a thing about it. But I do think Bresson fans are too forgiving of his later work, some of which is just terrible. (L’Argent might be the worst-edited film by a major figure I’ve ever seen.) How he went from A Man Escaped, Pickpocket, and Au Hasard Balthazar to . . . that is one of the great mysteries of our time.

I get this and wasn't trying to use them as sacred cows. My main contention was more about the way FM Dougal666 was slighting them rather than who they were or the opinion being given. You can like Bresson, or not, or feel indifferent, but to bring up Bresson and Mouchette in a bit about "lazy," “making-up-crap-as-we-go-along” filmmaking is just weird. I'm not a know-it-all about film but I've seen a lot of films, read about films and have talked to enough people to get a basic feel for the arguments for and against most of the big names. I am hard pressed to think of anybody who would think of Bresson, especially around Mouchette, in the FM's terms. To use an example from the FM's post above, It would be like using Steely Dan as an example of a band that records slap-dash guitar solos. It's not the FMs opinion of Mouchette that put me off, it was that the example in context of the argument made no sense to me. Hell, there is even a short film made at the time of Bresson making Mouchette that shows that there was in fact a script being worked from with detailed scene notes. It also shows the meticulous construction of several scenes in the film. The guy was not dicking around!

Altman, of course, is a different can of worms and can fit FMDougal666’s argument better. But for me, there are complications to his filmography that make things not so cut and dry. 3 Women, Images, That Cold Day in the Park, Vincent and Theo, The Player, Short Cuts, Gosford Park and even Thieves Like Us seem to be made by a more controlled hand than films like MASH or Nashville or Heath. I don’t think he is a one-formula kind of filmmaker. But fine, if you want to write him off as slap-dick, I kind of know what you mean, but I think that it is a limited view and a little ill-considered. And I say that as someone who doesn’t really get much out of Altman’s films in general.

So with FM Dougal666 throwing those two into the ill-prepared-and-lazy hacks bucket, calling Sion Sono "The Master" up above, even though he is well known for shooting on the fly without any prep and making-up-crap-as-he-goes-along, and throwing out there that Zappa's boring bullshit music is the FM's idea of par excellence, I'm just going to guess that wherever this FM is coming from is a place I ain't going. And that doesn't even touch on my aversion to the implied idea that fully pre-planned works make better art than works that use aleatoric or improvisational techniques!

Wood Goblin wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:23 am I sort of get the complaint about Altman, who I don’t particularly enjoy. Even my favorite movie of his (The Long Goodbye) has a few scenes that, painfully, look like improv exercises in an Intro to Acting class.

The only Altman film I actually like is The Player, which is the only one that seems to have had a storyboard... The Long Goodbye is OK (mainly because of Elliott Gould), but his films tend to be a half-arsed mess (he was probably more interested in spending his time gambling than working on them).

I find it hilarious that I'm accused of "slighting" Kelly Reichardt... how can you "slight" a nobody? She's a speck of dirt on the history of cinema.

how can you "slight" a nobody? She's a speck of dirt on the history of cinema.
[/quote]

You seem nice

Checks out with the Zappa fandom. He had contempt for those he thought his inferiors (ie everybody) too

where are you in all this?

trigger warning: clickbait, algorithms, engagement content

DaveA wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:14 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:L’Argent might be the worst-edited film by a major figure I’ve ever seen.

Is it me, or is shitposting more frequent these days?

Scene:
Person opens door, enters room, exchanges a few words with someone else, exits room, shuts door.

Next scene:
Person opens door, enters room, exchanges words with someone else, exits room, shuts door.

The scene after that:
Person opens door to shop, enters the shop, exchanges a few words, exits the stop, shuts the door.

Opens the door.
Shuts the door.
Opens.
Shuts.

Scene after scene. After scene. After scene.

It really helps the story, though, because it establishes that the characters enter the rooms through doors and not through the ventilation systems or by teleportation.

Wood Goblin wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:36 pm

DaveA wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 9:14 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:L’Argent might be the worst-edited film by a major figure I’ve ever seen.

Is it me, or is shitposting more frequent these days?

Scene:
Person opens door, enters room, exchanges a few words with someone else, exits room, shuts door.

Next scene:
Person opens door, enters room, exchanges words with someone else, exits room, shuts door.

The scene after that:
Person opens door to shop, enters the shop, exchanges a few words, exits the stop, shuts the door.

Opens the door.
Shuts the door.
Opens.
Shuts.

Scene after scene. After scene. After scene.

It really helps the story, though, because it establishes that the characters enter the rooms through doors and not through the ventilation systems or by teleportation.

Are you sure that the above describes L’Argent in faithful terms?

Is your novel reading not some kind of a handicap here when it comes to sussing out the vital information and overall aesthetic rigor of these scenes? Are you perhaps missing something?

There's an overriding rhythm to the film, via the way these scenes are contiguously arranged, that gives it a certain momentum, a mode of moving forward through spaces public and private in which that which might normally clog up or bog down a narrative is pared down or cast aside. This economy helps the film get more effectively to the heart of the matter. L'Argent is a brisk film, by anyone's standards. It's the Bresson film I've seen most for this very reason. People entering/leaving rooms, opening or closing doors hardly gets in the way of things or represents the full extent of what's happening.

Edited again, for spelling and such.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:42 pm where are you in all this?

trigger warning: clickbait, algorithms, engagement content

That video is literally unwatchable... it's like a collection of the most cliché clip-art and internet memes, with a monotonous voiceover that sounds like machine-talk.
In any case, this is a bout "becoming famous" and mainstream culture, which is of no interest to me (I came here because this is where the old punks used to hang out.

DaveA wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 8:59 pm
Are you sure that the above describes L’Argent in faithful terms?

It might not! It’s been a while since I watched it.

Is your novel reading not some kind of a handicap here when it comes to sussing out the vital information and overall aesthetic rigor of these scenes? Are you perhaps missing something?

Definitely not.

There's an overriding rhythm to the film, via the way these scenes are contiguously arranged, that gives it a certain momentum, a mode of moving forward through spaces public and private in which that which might normally clog up or bog down a narrative is pared down or cast aside. This economy helps the film get more effectively to the heart of the matter. L'Argent is a brisk film, by anyone's standards. It's the Bresson film I've seen most for this very reason. People entering/leaving rooms, opening or closing doors hardly gets in the way of things or represents the full extent of what's happening.

Edited again, for spelling and such.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. To me, it was turgid, and the intellectual arguments in favor his approach, while sound, bump up against my aesthetic objections to it.