M.H wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:43 am
Just altogether too ornate and country / folk inspired to sound like it was *new*. Similar vibe to Mission of Burma where you could see the prog beginnings showing. They never seemed as contemporary as their contemporaries.

Off topic but I strongly disagree on Burma. You can hear arrangements from them that are essentially the Fugazi formula like a decade and a half before Fugazi got there. They're right in the front of the lineage that leads to Ebullition/Dischord records, Nation of Ulysses, Drive Like Jehu etc the way people cite NY Dolls and Iggy for being in front of the punk mainline.

Patti's lyrics on Birdland and Land are so compelling to me. It's not just the words; it's the tent revival esque performative context that makes the poetry come alive. It's carried through with total sincerity and excitement. Those are my two favorite tracks on Horses. Her voice is most definitely an acquired taste; when I first heard her I said turn off this yowling crap. but once it clicked for me, Horses became a classic that I return to over and over. With that said, I fully understand a vote for MM.

MM. Never got Smith either.

I'd put Blank Generation over Horses, too.

Marquee Moon, that A side specially, has some of the most beautiful yet imaginative music ever put to tape.

Patti Smith is one of those boring "sacred cows"

Horses hit me very differently, in the late 90s, as a bookish, closeted fat kid who really, really liked playing rhythm guitar. I think it took some chances no-one else was really doing at the time. The rhythm section sounds great. The improv tracks - 'Birdland', 'Land' - really work, on those occasions, and I find her conviction overwhelming. I wish I could say I feel that's true of the more written-out tracks, but I don't and I can't. I have tried with several of the PSG's other records - did so more or less immediately, back then - and presumably they're for someone, but they're not ... they're not for me.

Marquee Moon is bottled lightning. The songs are all great; I like the words more. The way the guitars, bass and drums mesh and lace beneath the singing is at least as interesting to me as the solos. A couple of weeks ago, I was hearing Allman Brothers Live At Fillmore East for the first time, enjoying it hugely and at the same time tugged at by this strange sense of half-recognition, and I eventually realised that the way the ABB play on that record - so responsive to each other, so open to expression outside the commonly-received notions of rock, so melodic and so reflective - reminded me very strongly of the way Television play on MM.

Billy Ficca's drumming is incredible.

Marquee Moon over Horses, but Radio Ethiopia ove MM

i've never listened to Horses, no one's ever recommended it to me, put it on while hanging out or heard it at a party. being a big music nerd for nearly 20 years, this seems like an indictment.

Marquee Moon is a masterpiece.

losthighway wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:30 am

M.H wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:43 am
Just altogether too ornate and country / folk inspired to sound like it was *new*. Similar vibe to Mission of Burma where you could see the prog beginnings showing. They never seemed as contemporary as their contemporaries.

Off topic but I strongly disagree on Burma. You can hear arrangements from them that are essentially the Fugazi formula like a decade and a half before Fugazi got there. They're right in the front of the lineage that leads to Ebullition/Dischord records, Nation of Ulysses, Drive Like Jehu etc the way people cite NY Dolls and Iggy for being in front of the punk mainline.

I think in 82 most punk / hardcore bands were still more radically linear (i.e.: this is a new developnent because faster tempos, shorter song lengths, more aggression - more more more from the last generation), whereas you could tell Burma were older dudes and there was an art rock / proggish thing that informed their music. Richer volcab, more variety. This is not a pejorative observation.

Not sure I hear much of their sound in Fugazi, IMO, I guess I feel post-hardcore was just too far removed from the post-punk inspired art-rock hybrid Burma championed. The Go4 sound looms large in both bands, I suppose.

MM and it's not at all close.