In addition to the world just becoming a depressing, rage filled shithole overall, there are other reasons why my interest has faded. Being burnt out on band shit is a huge one, and it's somewhat related to the above. Decent venues are closing left and right, DIY shows seem to be filled with phobic, anti-fun youngsters (my problem, I know). And the 'real life' PRF blew itself up by trying to grow like a corporation. I have always thought of the events as an opportunity to hang out with friends I don't get to see often. Music was far down the list of importance. Then there started to be this attitude of "we need to bring in more bands, new bands, young bands". No, we fucking don't. It became a tour stop for bands who would play their set and fucking leave. The same group of 10 or so people were doing all of the work to make the events happen, at the expense of their own enjoyment, with no new people stepping up. So I'd get super pissed off at people saying "this is such a cool event! it's magic how it all just comes together!" As they set their empty beer cup down on the floor and walk away, or stuff a plate into an overflowing trash can rather than emptying it into the dumpster 10 feet away. Just fucking moronic, self important assholes that I don't care to associate with anymore.
There!

I was a long time Tech Room lurker, finally joined in 2009 when my band was putting out our first LP to ask for recommendations of cool/small/indie magazines, radio stations, etc. to send copies to (ah, the naivety of thinking someone might care). I got no responses at all, which was a bummer. The forum is generally much more welcoming of new members, which is a good thing. I enjoyed the tone of the early board, but sometimes it was less about good natured piss-take and more of a pissing contest. Or about someone taking their frustrations out on someone who wasn't "one of the group". There was a feeling of what people now call 'gatekeeping'. Personally, I wasn't too deterred and have found the Tech Room specifically to be thee most valuable resource over the past decade and a half of learning how to repair and build and troubleshoot equipment. I am frequently baffled when I venture outside of the Tech Room by the drama. And by the general change in taste, the things that are defended in C/NC as OrthodoxEaster mentioned. Not necessarily Lady Gaga...that didn't surprise me nearly as much as, say, people coming to the defense of the Offspring or Green Day or a Fat Wreck Chords band. But, whatever. I guess it's good to have a diverse range of tastes even if I think some of those tastes suck. I do find that it's easy to get my ire up when I'm outside of the Tech Room. I've written a lot of posts that I delete and never submit. And probably more that I should have deleted. But I understand that there isn't much sense arguing with someone on a web forum, so I try to limit myself to the practical aspects of the PRF, which are truly indispensable and have helped me immensely. It can be a wonderful community of genuinely helpful, kind people willing to share the kind of valuable information that only comes from time and experience. Yes, it's not what it used to be, but you can also ask a question and get an answer other than 'go fuck yourself' and that wasn't always the case.

So, obviously there are still Facebook Group, which I don't use, and the BBQ's and Thundersnows, which I've never attended. To Jeff's point is that scene also fractured by this point?

I joined in the mid-aughts specifically for the shitty eltism and grandstanding. It was great fun, a very familiar midwestern kind of mix of gallows humor but with a sense of purpose, and ultimately an obligation to do your best to entertain your fellow board members. it's a shame it's fizzled, but nothing lasts forever.

Tom Wanderer wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:34 pm There was a feeling of what people now call 'gatekeeping'. Personally, I wasn't too deterred and have found the Tech Room specifically to be thee most valuable resource over the past decade and a half of learning how to repair and build and troubleshoot equipment. I am frequently baffled when I venture outside of the Tech Room by the drama. And by the general change in taste, the things that are defended in C/NC as OrthodoxEaster mentioned. Not necessarily Lady Gaga...that didn't surprise me nearly as much as, say, people coming to the defense of the Offspring or Green Day or a Fat Wreck Chords band. But, whatever. I guess it's good to have a diverse range of tastes even if I think some of those tastes suck.

I've been thinking about this dynamic a lot lately. The cultural elitism of music enthusiasts. I think for folks in the underground Gen X and the early part of Millenial's teens/twenties were hard into the tribalism and snobbery. A lot was lost because of this, but there were some gains. Mainly I think it was a defensive response that set boundaries between what I care about, and what shit the mainstream is attacking me with. Self-definition came from endorsing a narrow, hyphenated music genre's subculture, which in turn meant viscerally rejecting media that did not get approval and digging into what did. This made people miss out on lots of stuff that they might have learned from and enjoyed (I didn't even consider listening to Pink Floyd for the first 20 years of my life, was not even a question), but it also meant that if you became adept at performing X kind of music, you could pretty much guarantee an audience of at least 40-50 passionate listeners at your show because you were providing that genre.

Now the culture is friendlier. You can watch TV, drive to work, go out for a drink and not feel like the world is commanding you to love Beyonce (or whatever). If you read about pop culture, she's definitely there, but you're welcome to participate, and not participating doesn't even feel like a statement. Everyone is free to dig into whatever, and everything is pretty widely available. The punk rock tribalism either helped birth, or just lived through to a time where anyone can have discerning taste and can just find whatever oasis they need to be a comic book freak, or only listen to early 60's doo woo singles, or whatever. This means the 'edge lord' of the past, who was once a somewhat necessary cultural warrior, is just an asshole.

Alan Watts once commented on how too free and open of a sexual culture can actually remove some tension that charges things with eroticism. I wonder sometimes if western culture's relationship with music has a similar ironic weakening. Defeated by success in some way.

losthighway wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:27 pm This means the 'edge lord' of the past, who was once a somewhat necessary cultural warrior, is just an asshole.

As an asshole, I totally disagree. It means that we're again at a point where mainstream Gen X parents and their kids both enjoy listening to Taylor Swift, Harry Styles, or whatever is being marketed to them that day, together, while driving to school. This is not progress. This is a return to cultural homogenization and art as commerce. Let's sit down and watch the Lawrence Welk show with the family.

People here were never ONLY listening to obtuse noise rock. This wasn't like a metal forum or something. It was just that there was some actual objectivity in evaluating things outside of the immediate scene, and sometimes those things sucked, sometimes they were awesome. It's wrong to say it can all be chalked up to empty posturing.

zorg wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:00 pm

losthighway wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:27 pm This means the 'edge lord' of the past, who was once a somewhat necessary cultural warrior, is just an asshole.

As an asshole, I totally disagree. It means that we're again at a point where mainstream Gen X parents and their kids both enjoy listening to Taylor Swift, Harry Styles, or whatever is being marketed to them that day, together, while driving to school. This is not progress. This is a return to cultural homogenization and art as commerce. Let's sit down and watch the Lawrence Welk show with the family.

People here were never ONLY listening to obtuse noise rock. This wasn't like a metal forum or something. It was just that there was some actual objectivity in evaluating things outside of the immediate scene, and sometimes those things sucked, sometimes they were awesome. It's wrong to say it can all be chalked up to empty posturing.

But families listening to Taylor Swift is the greatest gift to an edge lord. It means there is still a zeitgeist to rebel against. If there wasn't a cohesive mainstream, there'd be no underground to characterize it as different.

I think everyone on here enjoys debating what sucks. It's the reason some C/NC threads get so long. I think there's a difference between having an opinion informed by discerning tastes, and being an edge lord. I can describe why I think a McDonalds burger is less good. I can describe what makes a burger better. An edge lord would make it their MO to harshly explain to anyone enjoying a McDonalds burger that they're fools and should stop. Or today it's more like a grill master can say why they keep enjoying both even though they know it's 'so wrong'.

I guess what I'm hoping at here is that the cultural may be kinder, but it can still be critical.

Recommend people revisit the "Musical Concern: Burial" thread. Thank god it wasn't lost. Fun times!

I dunno, I wouldn’t mind watching Lawrence Welk.

losthighway wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:27 pm
Alan Watts once commented on how too free and open of a sexual culture can actually remove some tension that charges things with eroticism. I wonder sometimes if western culture's relationship with music has a similar ironic weakening. Defeated by success in some way.

Oh, Alan Watts quote, nice.

Reminds me to start a meditation thread…

What happened to bishopdante? I was super busy there for many months, came back, and he was gone : (