The Lambrusco talk is interesting. Over here (UK), it's seen (by me, anyway) as the kind of ultra-cheap, ultra-sweet thing guzzled by the gallon on hen nights and by Essex girls at any time. See also Lambrini.

It should be noted that I'm not judging these women because I'm just a different version of them: if it's red, and 12% or higher, I'll drink it

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:25 pm I'm a big fan of Camillo Donati, who would be my go-to for lambrusco.

Is this one pretty dry? I love the dry offering from Cleto Chiarli. I see on the the Donati site that they make Malvasia too. I am intrigued. I harvested some this past harvest for my white blend at Copain and it turned out amazing.

RyanZ wrote:

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:25 pm I'm a big fan of Camillo Donati, who would be my go-to for lambrusco.

Is this one pretty dry? I love the dry offering from Cleto Chiarli. I see on the the Donati site that they make Malvasia too. I am intrigued. I harvested some this past harvest for my white blend at Copain and it turned out amazing.

Indeed, pretty dry.

Chiarli's entry-level bottle sounds cool. Supposedly made in an unusually subtle style. I don't believe I've tried it.

Donati's sparkling malvasia is terrific. Aromatic, a little like bitter ginger beer, at least some years ago. I find myself craving it at Xmas.

Wait, you're back in the winemaking game? Coongrats! Why did I think you had some kinda career shift some years ago?

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:15 am

RyanZ wrote:

OrthodoxEaster wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:25 pm I'm a big fan of Camillo Donati, who would be my go-to for lambrusco.

Is this one pretty dry? I love the dry offering from Cleto Chiarli. I see on the the Donati site that they make Malvasia too. I am intrigued. I harvested some this past harvest for my white blend at Copain and it turned out amazing.

Indeed, pretty dry.

Chiarli's entry-level bottle sounds cool. Supposedly made in an unusually subtle style. I don't believe I've tried it.

From Chiarli I prefer the Cialdini bottling, which is grasparossa; the Vecchia Modena is sorbara.

I can't recall the method of production for Donati, but Zanasi is a single fermentation, in tank. They also keep some juice in tanks and sell it to the locals in demi-johns so they can make wine at home.

Ryan, what else you got in your white blend?

enframed wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:38 pm

jfv wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:35 pm

enframed wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:10 pmTry Lambrusco Grasparossa from a reputable importer (Cleto Chiarli and Zanasi wineries spring to mind)

I remember having a variety of Lambrusco the last time I was in Italy.. near Vicenza.. maybe 7 years or so ago. There’s no way I’d be able to tell you what variety it was.. other than delicious, rich, yet somehow refreshing at the same time.

Beer people, especially those who like lambics and gueuzes, IME tend to like Lambrusco, as it drinks a bit like a fruited sour beer.

I am definitely a beer person that loves lambic and gueuze (think Tilquin/Drie Fonteinen/De Cam rather than sweet stuff like Lindemans) and I’ve yet to meet a Lambrusco I’ve liked, and I’ve had them in Italy. But I’d love to try one someone is calling dry. I’ve had some decent dry Rieslings. I also really enjoy skin contact wines with or without brett in them. But yes, I love them because I like brett in beer.

I voted white but I like loads of reds too. And because I think it gets a bad rap, especially from men. We drink a lot New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc at dinners with friends.

Chenin Blanc is my go to for wine with sushi if I’m not having sake.

I really enjoyed a bunch of local Malvasia and Plavac Mali while in Croatia and Assyrtiko while in Greece.

Only really my thing in special circumstances, but Vin Santo with the contucci is kinda fun.

I’ll tell you what I really don’t like though. A buttery Chardonnay, especially oaked.

tommy wrote:I also really enjoy skin contact wines with or without brett in them. But yes, I love them because I like brett in beer.

Look into whatever whites Czech winemaker Milan Nestarec has up his sleeve. (The Youngster tends to be underwhelming, but otherwise... ) Okr (the orange in the liter) and Danger 380 Volts (the pét-nat) can be quite beery some years. Speaking of pét-nat, you might also flip for Dom. Mosse's Moussamoussettes.

tommy wrote:I voted white but I like loads of reds too. And because I think it gets a bad rap, especially from men.

Which is, of course, absurd. I didn't vote, but I'd lean white. Although I'd probably shrivel up and die w/o light-bodied Loire Valley reds in my life.

tommy wrote:Chenin Blanc is my go to for wine with sushi if I’m not having sake.

Good choice. Central European whites also work well in this department, particularly Austrian, Czech, Slovak, Slovene (malvazija and vitovska!) , and Hungarian ones. Georgian skin-contact stuff can be cool if they're not too tannic and don't overwhelm the fish.

tommy wrote:I’ll tell you what I really don’t like though. A buttery Chardonnay, especially oaked.

Makes two of us.

You might know this already, but if you've got $30 or $45 to blow on a bottle, Jura chardonnay will turn that on its head. Oak sometimes, yes, but w/no butter, in part b/c the barrels aren't usually new, the climate is colder, and there's usually less screwing around in the cellar. Or even w/some butter (!), but w/less alcohol and w/o any of that sweet yellow-apple fruit to turn it cloying. More like crème fraîche and salted nuts. Or a savory, brothy thing. Lots and lots of acid, too. Those made in the ouillé method (topping off the barrels) will be fresher (and usually cheaper) than the sous voile ones aged under yeast, which lean more (dry, of course) sherrylike.

Oh yeah, we are big fans of the pét-nat in this household!

And as far as orange wines go Slobodne Deviner 2017 is the best we’ve had.

I love wine, but I'm too ignorant to drop more than $30 on anything unless it's a trusted recommendation. Like many novices, I tend to look at varietals rather than growing regions, which I know isn't a great way to look at things, but like I said, I'm a lunkhead.

Typically what grabs me are stuff that's some combo of dry/earthy with darker fruit taste. Doesn't need to be full bodied and while all things being equal, I'd go red, whites and rose's can be great too. Tannins are nice, and I really dig stuff with some minerality or (not sure if this is a real term) an astringent quality?

Wine is so fucking impenetrable for me because unless it's a big producer, I just don't fucking remember what's what, or whether I can repurchase something I liked. The whole oenophile world really rewards folks that put in the time, and I am too casual a drinker. Up for any recommendations though!

tommy wrote:And as far as orange wines go Slobodne Deviner 2017 is the best we’ve had.

It's been a few years since I've had anything from Slobodné, but I'd say you're doing more than fine in terms of finding cool stuff. Fairly deep cut in terms of wine. [tips hat]

twelvepoint wrote:Typically what grabs me are stuff that's some combo of dry/earthy with darker fruit taste. Doesn't need to be full bodied and while all things being equal, I'd go red, whites and rose's can be great too. Tannins are nice, and I really dig stuff with some minerality or (not sure if this is a real term) an astringent quality?

Wine is so fucking impenetrable for me because unless it's a big producer, I just don't fucking remember what's what, or whether I can repurchase something I liked. The whole oenophile world really rewards folks that put in the time, and I am too casual a drinker. Up for any recommendations though!

If you're not into it already, sounds like you could use some Etna Rosso in your life.

Vino di Anna is about my favorite thing going there for your buck, although it's not easy to find at retail. Worth a try, though. Calabretta is still reasonably priced at around $35 (cheaper, if the Cala Cala sublabel still exists), plus there's always some bottle age on it. Eduardo Torres Acosta's Versant Nord is maybe a few bucks more. Girolamo Russo and Terre Nere are much, much more conventional producers, sort of boilerplate Etna, but they make some affordable bottles and you could do way worse. Not a bad "way in." The much-hyped Frank Cornelissen's wines used to be a fun, fascinating ride (if not always consistent), but nowadays, they're sort of dull. Victims of their own success?

Far away from Sicily, R. López De Heredia's Riojas (tempranillo plus some other stuff) and Ar.Pe.Pe's entry-level Valtellina (nebbiolo) might also fit your bill.

As for the fucking nerd aspect of all this, once you get the hang of it, it's not so different from keeping tracks of bands, record labels, and regional scenes back in the day, if I were to use a music analogy. It's a little like collecting '80s hardcore or early-'90s indie-rock 7-inches. But more fun. And you get drunk.

Thanks FM OrthodoxEaster. I’m gonna refer to this next time I hit my local store, which is smaller, but well curated. If I can find any of these I will report back. Appreciate the help here and yes, the indie bands/label analogy is comforting.