I am writing to vent, because ugh... I just feel so fucking awful at the moment. Long story short, I'm a self-taught software engineer with 20 years experience and support a family of 4 on my income and stuck having to find a new job.

Granted, I have a job, but after speaking with the president of the company a few weeks ago and being frank with him that it's clear the company is going down hill, he suggested I should look for a new job because he can't guarantee there won't be layoffs in the near future. So my job is a ticking time bomb. I haven't had to look for a job in about 6 years. The landscape has changed: most jobs are remote and the pool of candidates is obviously bigger. I already work remote and I would like to keep it that way. I also took my current job at a high position. While I can do it with my eyes closed, finding a job for the experience level is really difficult because the stakes are so much greater. I have been getting rejection after rejection before I even get a chance to have a conversation. There's plenty of jobs out there, and I'm considering doing a slight pivot that I know I am qualified for. I can't tell if recruiters think I'm over-qualified, under-qualified, or haven't worked anywhere they find interesting enough. My resume is long and I've worked at many places, but I don't job hop, it's just the nature of the business.

I have gone through two interviews recently. One interview went great, but after they gave me the salary options, I had to turn it down because it was just way too low, it would hurt me financially. The other one, I had a technical interview that was a live code session for 45 minutes (two scheduled). Those of you who aren't engineers, live coding is the worst fucking way to do a technical assessment. Anyway, I had asked the head of the engineering what to expect for the tech assessment, and he said, "don't even worry about it, it's nothing crazy." I did my best to prepare for god knows what, brushing up on concepts I thought we might be covering based on the nature of their business. I completely bombed the tech assessment. The first exercise was a very difficult problem and something I am not very familiar with, nor would most engineers be. I know I could have done a great job if it were done in my own time, but I was thrusted into the fire and did my best to climb out to no avail. (The second interview was canceled immediately after.) Sure, I guess I dodged a bullet, but it doesn't mean it don't feel the sting of failure.

So, while it's only been about 3 weeks since I started looking, I'm feeling very bummed out already and this latest experience just makes the weight feel even heavier. I had to create a LinkedIn just to look professional. The effect of social media--which I've removed completely out of my life years ago--is now starting to affect my mental state. Everyone on LinkedIn is some kind of fucking rock star genius and if you aren't spending every waking hour of your day letting the universe suck every ounce of from you to make the world a better place, then you are not worthy of anyone's time. Reading recruiters say bullshit like, "don't show that you're open to be hired, it looks desperate" and "gaps in your resume shows that you are a risk taker" only infuriates me and makes me feel like the walls are closing in. I'm good at what I do and I have a family to support, but I feel like I can't catch a break because there's just way too much expectation of everyone, and that gets reflected in the interview process where you have to interview multiple times before can show you are worthy of employment.

Anyway, probably gonna take a few months to get a new job. I just hope it doesn't utterly destroy me and my family. I've reached out to friends and colleagues. I appreciate all the help I've been given.

For those job seekers out there, I salute you. Stay safe and take care of yourself.

cakes wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:27 pm I am writing to vent, because ugh... I just feel so fucking awful at the moment. Long story short, I'm a self-taught software engineer with 20 years experience and support a family of 4 on my income and stuck having to find a new job.

Oh wow, I'm so sorry, that does sound awful.

I have no idea if the company I work for (UL) would have any current postings of interest to you, but I do love working there. We almost always have some job postings available, and it looks like there are some related to software. Couldn't hurt for me to put a link here I suppose: https://www.ul.com/careers

cakes wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:27 pm So, while it's only been about 3 weeks since I started looking, I'm feeling very bummed out already and this latest experience just makes the weight feel even heavier. I had to create a LinkedIn just to look professional.

God, I hate LinkedIn. I have a profile there but rarely ever go on it. I'm horrible selling myself and thankfully haven't needed to in a long time.

Best of luck to you!

I'm sorry man, but yes this is all too familiar. I pivoted into software 6 years ago, have solid mid-level experience writing test automation, performance testing, working with deployment engineers etc. And I've been out of work for about 16 months now living on savings but luckily with a partner with a solid gov job. I've had over a dozen 3 rounds + technical assessment type interviews that ultimately went nowhere.. some of them just flat out ghosted me. I've actually seen Masters Degrees requirements for the jobs I was doing before. Fucking absurd.

Elaborating on a few of your points:

-Anyone still giving live coding interviews should be shot. Writing out a script to print out Fibonacci numbers in real time doesn't indicate shit for doing the job at hand, and they are always executed awkwardly over Zoom/Teams/Slack. If they want to give you a small project to work on, fine, but they better be fucking serious and not just milking candidates for free work.

-Linkedin is a useless piece of shit. Pretty sure AI is writing about 75% of the 'content' at this point, and any job posting worth a damn already has 300 applications for it.

The good news for you is that you have senior level experience, a wide network, and tons of references I'm sure. But be prepared for some compromises: be it lower salary or onsite/hybrid work demands. Take some online classes maybe certification on buzzy shit like AWS Devops or whatever. The field has changed drastically in the last 2 years and the workers are not currently calling the shots.

I'm at the end of my rope with this shit and reconsidering trades work for the first time in over a decade. There is a mass wave of retirement in those fields and young people just want to be influencers or whatever, so there might actually be some demand there. Working with solar on some level might be cool (I have low voltage electrical training already).

Oh! And recruiters! I've talked to nearly 100 on the phone at this point and there are about 3 of them I don't want to murder. Just absolutely insulting, holograms of human beings who barely understand the nature of the work they are hiring for. One last week insisted I add a line about "I like to break things!" on my fucking resume. I didn't want to, but she fucking added it anyway and surprise surprise.. I heard nothing back from that place. Because no one outside of San Jose actually uses that Elon-esque buzz word garbage. FFS

Man, I feel this. I've been in networking/telecommunicaions my whole adult life, and was hired with a company in 2002 that got bought in 04 and then again in 16. I survived all this through 2018 when Verizon - the purchaser in 16 - let me and eventually of the rest of the team that reported through me go - 100% because we were more expensive than our peers in Oklahoma and rural Michigan. We were too expensive in Dallas and Denver. It fucking sucked. I mistakenly invested way too much emotional capital into my workplace, and as a leader felt super responsible for a shit ton of things that were out of my control.

I was targeted by an adjacent competitor at the time to start up a new NOC for them in the states, so in 2018 I applied to and went on a single interview with that company that requested my resume. I got that gig despite what I felt was a shit interview - turns out my worst was the best they'd seen in anyone with experience in network leadership and willing to travel.

That lasted 3+ years, where I got 100% of all my bonuses, outperformed all metrics set by the board and never went above budget. They also decided they couldn't afford me, and I was let go with no warning literally as I was headed to the airport to go on vacation with the fam on July 1 2021. They tried to fuck me out of some bonus money, but I raised enough of a stink that they decided to pay me out.

I basically dropped out of the workforce at that point and tried a couple of self employment options which didn't work out. Wound up ubering to keep the mortgage and bills paid until that didn't work.

I was totally unprepared for the job search when I began in 2022 - I mean I hadn't actively looked for work in 20 fucking years.

I had a goal of sending 20 resumes a day, and in the few months I was looking I went on 50+ interviews, many same day with the same company for a variety of roles. Some as short as 5 minutes because they were paying total shit. Got really close to about 4 good gigs only to get the bad news at the end. Looking for work is a full time endeavor if you're serious about it, which is counter intuitive to the tech we have surrounding it, but that's another topic.

The interviewing I did for the gig I wound up getting was so wild - my first interview was a series of questions that were presented to me by an online program, and then I would record my answers to video for someone else to review later - I had a conversation with a laptop camera lol. Then I had the "tech" portion of the interview, about a week later which was weird. There were like 5 people on a zoom/teams/webex call who weren't terribly interested in my answers, and one dude asking questions about cisco shit that I knew pretty well.

They called and met my minimum asking salary 10 minutes after the interview.

I should be looking for something that is more challenging and suits my previous experience in leadership, but it's such a massive pain in the dick I don't wanna do it.

penningtron wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:15 pm Oh! And recruiters! I've talked to nearly 100 on the phone at this point and there are about 3 of them I don't want to murder. Just absolutely insulting, holograms of human beings who barely understand the nature of the work they are hiring for. One last week insisted I add a line about "I like to break things!" on my fucking resume. I didn't want to, but she fucking added it anyway and surprise surprise.. I heard nothing back from that place. Because no one outside of San Jose actually uses that Elon-esque buzz word garbage. FFS

The quota/widget driven world of recruiting is so objectionable. Put that on the list of things I will never do unless the alternative is death.

penningtron wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:53 pm I'm sorry man, but yes this is all too familiar. I pivoted into software 6 years ago, have solid mid-level experience writing test automation, performance testing, working with deployment engineers etc.

Awesome, dude. It seems like something perfect for you and man do we need good QA engineers. I'm sorry it's taken so long for you to find a job, though. I wish I could help, I really do!

jfv wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:40 pm I have no idea if the company I work for (UL) would have any current postings of interest to you, but I do love working there. We almost always have some job postings available, and it looks like there are some related to software. Couldn't hurt for me to put a link here I suppose: https://www.ul.com/careers

Thank you!

Frankie99 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:21 pm The interviewing I did for the gig I wound up getting was so wild - my first interview was a series of questions that were presented to me by an online program, and then I would record my answers to video for someone else to review later - I had a conversation with a laptop camera lol.

I've also applied for many Tech Support roles, as there's a similar component to work I've already done and these questionnaires are common. I write out the answers and read it over a damn recording, while trying to sound loose and unscripted. Because there's no way anyone doesn't sound doofy over those recordings, especially winging it.

cakes wrote: Awesome, dude. It seems like something perfect for you and man do we need good QA engineers.

Yeah.. when I joined teams were really investing in QA and especially automation, as devs were tired of dealing with shoddy offshore work (to be sympathetic: those people are paid pennies and you get what you pay for). But companies seem to be re-offshoring that work again, or starting to lean on unproven AI testing suites to handle QA. Most of these companies aren't hurting for $ BTW, they just can't report the massive profits they were used to seeing in '20-21 without significant layoffs. To late stage capitalism!

penningtron wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:49 pm Yeah.. when I joined teams were really investing in QA and especially automation, as devs were tired of dealing with shoddy offshore work (to be sympathetic: those people are paid pennies and you get what you pay for). But companies seem to be re-offshoring that work again, or starting to lean on unproven AI testing suites to handle QA. Most of these companies aren't hurting for $ BTW, they just can't report the massive profits they were used to seeing in '20-21 without significant layoffs. To late stage capitalism!

Well, everyone fucking overhired to stifle competition, coupled with zero-interest rate loans easy to obtain and a giant available pool of engineers looking for jobs, it was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. My company was having a hard time attracting quality engineers and we couldn't compete with the big boys. Salaries were getting way out of hand. Eventually, the other shoe dropped and it seemed that workers in the tech sector had too much power on their wages, and the big tech companies decided to trim the fat after the pandemic and the zero interest money dried up. You can see salaries correcting themselves now that there's more people competing for jobs. I have strait up asked companies with large engineering teams in my initial interviews if they had to let go a percentage of engineering staff, followed up with why. I have gotten some really interesting answers, but they all pretty much sum up to: needed to grow quickly, realized we hired to quickly, had to get rid of 10-20% of staff that wasn't up to standards.

But yes, late stage capitalism nonetheless.