cakes wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 9:31 am It's really sad to see people in the public forum that is the internet who think Palestinians somehow deserve to be killed because of the actions of Hamas. They are loud and obnoxious and make it seem like this is the majority viewpoint.

Most of this is the propaganda machine. They have troll farms and use software that scans social media for keywords so people can be directed to the page they want to 'influence'.

The Israeli govt have also spent quite a bit of cash getting students to do this type of work:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-f ... e-23695896

cakes wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 9:31 am make it seem like this is the majority viewpoint. Even so, it appears more like a close split.

The general public in most of countries around the world are horrified by what's happening in Gaza and are overwhelmingly in favour of a ceasefire. The politicians that are theoretically supposed to represent them don't give a shit about that though.

Only 8% of British people in this recent poll think there should not be a ceasefire in Gaza.

The last poll I saw was that a plurality of Americans are against the war in Gaza. It was very good to see, but wasn't as high as I would hope

Gramsci wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 8:22 am even the liberal papers like the Guardian are gatekeeper organisations that set the agenda of acceptable leftism.

There's a reason for that.

How the UK Security Services neutralised the country’s leading liberal newspaper

cakes wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 9:19 pm The last poll I saw was that a plurality of Americans are against the war in Gaza. It was very good to see, but wasn't as high as I would hope

The propaganda is stronger and more focused on America because without US support, it all goes down the shitter, so I would expect the figures to reflect that.

Also notice the establishment response to the protests - they're coming down hard and heavy and trying to discredit them at every step, because these things can have an effect.

Curry Pervert wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 9:22 pm

Gramsci wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 8:22 am even the liberal papers like the Guardian are gatekeeper organisations that set the agenda of acceptable leftism.

There's a reason for that.

How the UK Security Services neutralised the country’s leading liberal newspaper

Grim reading.

kokorodoko wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 11:00 am

Gramsci wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 4:17 amI find the self censorship of the centre left and liberals infuriating.

How do you reckon they self-censor? That implies that they want to do something but choose not to. To me it has always looked like they have no idea what to do (if they're at all interested).

It’s nuanced but there’s definitely an Overton Window that many on the centre left and left of the Labour Party that fear the majority right wing media aren’t willing to challenge. They temper policy to this imaginary electorate . This got much worse after the 2019 defeat.

I think this is partially Starmer’s problem. I think he’s actually a lot more left wing than the Milktoast policy platform he’s presenting. But he’s terrified of the Daily Mail and the Sun.

Gramsci wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 4:15 am Grim reading.

Isn't it.

Gramsci wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 4:15 am I think this is partially Starmer’s problem. I think he’s actually a lot more left wing than the Milktoast policy platform he’s presenting. But he’s terrified of the Daily Mail and the Sun.

Starmer doesn't have a leftwing bone in his body. He's a power hungry narcissist who will do whatever his paymasters want him to.

Curry Pervert wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 9:51 am

Gramsci wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 4:15 am Grim reading.

Isn't it.

Gramsci wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 4:15 am I think this is partially Starmer’s problem. I think he’s actually a lot more left wing than the Milktoast policy platform he’s presenting. But he’s terrified of the Daily Mail and the Sun.

Starmer doesn't have a leftwing bone in his body. He's a power hungry narcissist who will do whatever his paymasters want him to.

You’re probably right, unfortunately. I try and stay optimistic. I quit the party after the way they treated Corbyn, who’s my local MP.

We had a general election in Croatia two weeks ago. Center right and hard right parties won. A center right party has been ruling these woods for the last two decades, making it worse each and every turn.

It has been my experience that the left leaning politics are one of "inclusion" and that does not go well in a tight battle. Has always been, will ever be.

Exactly what happens when the left only offer vibes rather than policies that materially benefit people’s lives.