Wood Goblin wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 9:20 am

Dave N. wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 11:18 pm Chicagoans are the Texans of the Midwest. They love their flag. They think it’s the center of the universe. They like to pretend that it’s not as racist as it actually is. Oh, the skyline! Oh, the museums! Anyone from Chicago will probably tell you it’s essential.

Bypass NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, Austin, etc. Stick with mid-sized cities if you must do cities. Go to as many national parks as you can. State parks, too. College towns are fun. EXPLORE THE WEST! Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Montana, Colorado…that’s where you go to get your mind blown in ‘Merica. The big cities are all cesspools, no matter how important they tell you they are.

I know you’re sour on Big American Cities, but if that’s the experience someone wants to have, then mid-sized cities and college towns—as great as they can be—won’t offer that experience. And if you’re specifically seeking architecture, then yes, Chicago is essential.

The thing with college towns is that they can be great places to live without necessarily being great places to visit.

I definitely agree on the national parks, but those only make sense if you’re planning to visit the west. Even then, the larger ones now require a fair amount of pre-planning, whereas the cities don’t.

Also, the Chicago skyline is beautiful, and the Art Institute and architecture tours are incredible. They’re almost impossible to overrate.

Agree completely. I much prefer Madison or Ann Arbor to Chicago, but I would never suggest somebody coming from overseas should bother with either of these places. Same with the national parks....people forget that the distances here are BRUTAL. You will lose days and weeks visiting these wonderful places, so plan well ahead....it's not an casual "excursion". I hear from recent visitors that, in season, the national parks can be terribly crowded.

zorg wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 9:21 am

Nate Dort wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 8:42 am I'd argue the architecture in Detroit is as important and interesting as any other city in the US, at least as far as early 20th century stuff goes. The number of large, ornate buildings that were built here in a 20 year period is crazy. Lots of cool industrial art deco stuff to see.

That's a very narrow band of interest. Are you really suggesting that he should visit Detroit instead of Chicago, because that's not a good idea.

No, I'm not making that suggestion, especially for somebody coming from overseas with a limited time. Definitely visit Chicago.

However, I know everybody likes to shit on Detroit based on outdated knowledge and fear.

zorg wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 9:21 am

Nate Dort wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 8:42 am I'd argue the architecture in Detroit is as important and interesting as any other city in the US, at least as far as early 20th century stuff goes. The number of large, ornate buildings that were built here in a 20 year period is crazy. Lots of cool industrial art deco stuff to see.

That's a very narrow band of interest. Are you really suggesting that he should visit Detroit instead of Chicago, because that's not a good idea.

Albert Kahn was hugely influential, but I’m going to guess that Mies and FLW will win out over factories (that are now mostly demolished) and proto-fascist classicism.

I lived in Brazil for four years, I know all about brutal distances… a short trip was six hours.

When my friends used to ask where I lived I’d say, “In the south near Argentina…” a three day drive .

The top of Brazil is closer to Canada than it is to the bottom of Brazil.

Wood Goblin wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 9:20 am

Dave N. wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 11:18 pm Chicagoans are the Texans of the Midwest. They love their flag. They think it’s the center of the universe. They like to pretend that it’s not as racist as it actually is. Oh, the skyline! Oh, the museums! Anyone from Chicago will probably tell you it’s essential.

Bypass NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, Austin, etc. Stick with mid-sized cities if you must do cities. Go to as many national parks as you can. State parks, too. College towns are fun. EXPLORE THE WEST! Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Montana, Colorado…that’s where you go to get your mind blown in ‘Merica. The big cities are all cesspools, no matter how important they tell you they are.

I know you’re sour on Big American Cities, but if that’s the experience someone wants to have, then mid-sized cities and college towns—as great as they can be—won’t offer that experience. And if you’re specifically seeking architecture, then yes, Chicago is essential.

The thing with college towns is that they can be great places to live without necessarily being great places to visit.

I definitely agree on the national parks, but those only make sense if you’re planning to visit the west. Even then, the larger ones now require a fair amount of pre-planning, whereas the cities don’t.

Also, the Chicago skyline is beautiful, and the Art Institute and architecture tours are incredible. They’re almost impossible to overrate.

I’m super sour on cities right now. I recently moved from outside of Austin to the downtown area and it’s been a tough adjustment.

The Art Institute is great. The Architecture Tour is great. There are wonderful people there, and it’s the friendliest of the three biggies.

If you're looking to do a bit of regional travel and are interested in Wright, then Madison and SW Wisconsin are your jam. You'll also see the work of Wright's colleagues and apprentices in the region. Some suggestions for Chicago and the Region:

FL Wright in Chicago:
- FLW Oak Park Home & Studio (Oak Park)
- Unity Temple (Oak Park)
- Walking tour of the dozens of Wright designs in Oak Park
- Robie House (Hyde Park, near U of C, where you'll also see the Regenstein Library designed by Walter Netsch as well as the Mansueto Library by Helmut Jahn, and some amazing Art Deco stuff off campus near Washington Park - with the Obama Library going up (disgraced David Adjaye)
- Charnley-Persky House (Gold Coast - also check out the Madlener House, now owned by the Graham Foundation - founded by Ernest Graham of Graham, Anderson, Probst & White, who designed most of the museum campus near Soldier Field).
- Emil Bach House (in Rogers Park)

FL Wright in Wisconsin:
- SC Johnson Administration Building & Research Tower in Racine
- Wingspread residence, now a conference center in Racine
- Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Milwaukee
- Unitarian Meeting House in Madison
- Taliesin in Spring Green (of course!)
- Wyoming Valley School Cultural Arts Center (in Wyoming, just south of Taliesin)
- AD German Warehouse in Richland Center (a beautiful drive and landscape!)

Louis Sullivan in Chicago:
- https://www.artic.edu/archival-collecti ... in-chicago
- Auditorium Theater (of course!)
- Graceland Cemetery is worth a visit for the crypt architecture, including Mies' own minimalist plot.
- Charnley-Persky House (done w/FLW)
Outside of Chicago there are a number of bank and savings & loan buildings he designed, some of the best are in Columbus WI, about 20 minutes NW of Madison, and Owatonna, MN.

Speaking of Minnesota, a pair of Sullivan's apprentices formed the firm Purcell & Elmslie, which did a significant home in Minneapolis, owned by the Minneapolis Institute of Art and offering tours. In many ways their work exceeded wright's aesthetic. They also did a significant civic center in Sioux City, iA that's gorgeous.

Back to the city:
Some significant Mies van der Rohe works:
- Federal Center, which includes a post-office designed by Mies, and a large Calder sculpture
- Illinois Institute of Technology, which includes the well-known Crown Hall, which was the prototype for the Neue Nationalgalerie he did in Berlin.
- IBM building (with views interrupted by an Adrian Smith, Smith-Gill building owned by a certain Orange Cunt we can't wait to disappear from this planet)
- 860-880 North Lakeshore Drive (my partner's former boss owns a unit here)
- One Illinois Center, just a short walk from the IBM building.

Many of Mies' students went to work for CF Murphy and Associates, which became Murphy-Jahn. A few of their more significant offerings:
- United Terminal 1 at O'Hare, if you fly United into ORD, you'll experience it - for better and worse, firsthand.
- Richard J. Daley Center: realized Mies' ideal of structure as facade, by being made of Cor-Ten steel exposed to the elements. This building is such a fantastic realization of most of Mies' ideals and has a great plaza with many events and the well-known Picasso "baboon" sculpture (which when viewed from a rear quartering angle at just the right spot, looks like a profile of the building's namesake).
- McCormick Place Lakeside Center, just south of Soldier Field
- State of Illinois Office Building (Thompson Center) designed by Jahn.

Some other things of interest:
- There are Harry Bertoia sound sculptures in the plaza outside of AON Center
- Millenium Park features great concerts under a bandshell and lattice designed by Gehry. There's also the Crown Fountain by Jaume Plensa. Maggie Daley Park is a fun place to walk around for a bit.

Hollabird and Roche/Root has a bunch of art deco work around the city, especially on LaSalle street and culminating in the Board of Trade building at the far end (featured in one of the Batman movies). The lobbies around LaSalle and Madison are fantastic.

DH Burnham designed the Rookery building at LaSalle and Adams, go inside to see the lobby and courtyard that was re-done by Wright early in his career.

Another great Ernest Graham work is the original main postal building along the river at Jackson. It's not multi-use space and preserves the original facade and lobbies.

There's the Marina Towers by Bertrand Goldberg, and also the Hillard Homes near Chinatown - which you should hit for some of the best Chinese food between midtown and San Francisco. There are a few other Goldberg projects around the city, though Prentice Women's Hospital is gone (RIP).

I'll stop for now. There's no shortage of great things to see....

The Frank Lloyd Wright Home and Studio is well worth a trip to Oak Park, and you can walk around the village to gaze at several other of his designs. Once a year (just past), several of the houses are available for the Wright Plus tour, so I'm just tossing this here in case anyone reading the thread in future Marches or Aprils wants to purchase tickets. (*end obligatory plug for my past volunteer gig*)

Robie House recently completed an extensive renovation and is a fantastic tour. I don't know that I'd make a day of both locations because Oak Park to Hyde Park is a haul. If you'd like to see the entire CTA Green Line, you can take it from Oak Park to Cottage Grove and then walk a few blocks to Robie House at 58th & Kimbark. The view from the house used to be better when I was a kid in the neighborhood before the goddamned Booth School of Business was built.

Gramsci, if fate somehow places you in Milwaukee for part of a hypothetical Chicago visit, give me a shout, would love to meet up for a drink!

Dave N. wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 11:18 pm Chicagoans are the Texans of the Midwest. They love their flag. They think it’s the center of the universe. They like to pretend that it’s not as racist as it actually is. Oh, the skyline! Oh, the museums! Anyone from Chicago will probably tell you it’s essential.
....

The big cities are all cesspools, no matter how important they tell you they are.

I resemble this remark.

Gramsci if you do go to Chicago to tour some architecture check out Prairie avenue. There is a park there with the oldest house in Chicago although it's not the original location, it has been moved. But my favorite just a few steps from the park is https://www.glessnerhouse.org/ . Just a window into the world of a 19th century Chicago upper crust family home. It's built to focus inward on the back yard and like an urban castle on the street side. It might seem quaint to someone from Europe but I think it's fun.