brephophagist wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:25 am Pithier: let’s hear your protest, cocksocket?

Ok, I'll bite.

First, a recap:

I did not think the Stonehenge event was a particularly good protest. Yes, it drew attention. But I have a lot of trouble associating Stonehenge in any way with oil production or consumption. After some time, when people will think back at how Stonehenge was vandalized, they very well may have trouble figuring out what they were protesting. An analogy: the ivy on the outfield wall at Wrigley Field has been vandalized multiple times in past decades. Looking back at those incidents, I have no fucking clue why it was done. Could have been someone pissed off at the City of Chicago, the State of Illinois, the local alderman, a Cardinals or White Sox fan, or just some idiot. I don't consider it an effective protest if you can't look back at it and know exactly what the folks were protesting.

I thought spraying the planes with paint was much more effective. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the association with oil. Those planes are going to be out of commission for a while, not consuming oil. EDIT: also, the small percentage of the folks you are trying to convince to start taking action probably aren't going to mind if some poor rich person's plane got vandalized.

If I were to protest... I'd probably opt to do so without egregiously breaking the law. I'm not saying that others shouldn't, but I have a family to take care of. It's irresponsible for me to voluntarily do something where I'd spend time in jail and potentially lose my job. So I would do this:

- Get some friends
- Walk or bike to the nearest, busiest intersection or roundabout/rotary
- Dress up in the stupidest dinosaur costumes available
- Hold up signs that say "Just Stop Oil!"
- Stay there until asked to leave

For sure there will still be haters, but you might actually get a few people to smile, laugh, and maybe even think about what they are driving and how much oil they consume. Might even draw enough attention to get a local news crew to cover it.

brephophagist wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:25 am I hear this sort of critique frequently: these visible but symbolic acts of protest are misguided and do more harm than good.

I never hear a second paragraph giving meaningfully specific examples of better methods.

Pithier: let’s hear your protest, cocksocket?

My feelings exactly, but more succinctly and eloquently put.

I heard someone on a podcast talking about participating in an anti nuclear proliferation activist group in the 70's. She realized later that they veered into some Red Scare tendencies in the years that followed that she didn't agree with. But it felt like a great example to me of this dynamic. No, their expected doomsday didn't come (yet). Yes, their sit in might have turned off the people they should have hoped to bring in. But retrospectively who could fault their motivation, concerns or actions. Activism is mainly communication. If no one is addressing an important issue you have to try and make it a conversation through more creative means.

In spite of what centrists and conservatives would say about these folks, I don't imagine driving up to a monument with a bucket of dye and a barrel of anxiety felt like a neat way to show off. It was a personal risk. It might have done fuck all, but it's more than I've done.

Re: Stonehenge I recall Steve commenting that he liked the art protests because they were essentially saying "What's the point of any of this stuff (that's lasted centuries) if we're not around in a couple of hundred years?"

Paraphrasing, obviously.

Yeah, to me the association is heritage. Stonehenge, famous paintings... pieces of heritage which we supposedly value. And yet what are we doing for the future?

I think Just Stop Oil might have alienated some of their core supporters paint bombing Stonehenge...

Gramsci wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:46 am I think Just Stop Oil might have alienated some of their core supporters paint bombing Stonehenge...

I would say they weren't really core supporters then, just virtue signallers.

Curry Pervert wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:25 am

Gramsci wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:46 am I think Just Stop Oil might have alienated some of their core supporters paint bombing Stonehenge...

I would say they weren't really core supporters then, just virtue signallers.

Disagree. This isn’t much different from when Greenpeace fucked up the Nazca lines in Peru. I don’t give a shit that Greenpeace’s heart was in the right place. What these actions have in common is that none of them actually confront power or the mechanisms of environmental degradation in any way.

John Brown knew to attack an armory, not the Liberty Bell.

Wood Goblin wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:16 am Disagree. This isn’t much different from when Greenpeace fucked up the Nazca lines in Peru. I don’t give a shit that Greenpeace’s heart was in the right place. What these actions have in common is that none of them actually confront power or the mechanisms of environmental degradation in any way.

Not all actions have to "confront power or the mechanisms of environmental degradation", sometimes it's good to just draw attention to something, to shock people, to wake them the fuck up. Where's the punk spirit?