PASTA wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 12:00 pm

losthighway wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 8:05 am

I think what we need is a popular, grassroots legislative platform. It would need to be engineered by experts: lawyers, constitutional law scholars, people who have worked within the electoral system, but it would need to be fronted by a charismatic spokesperson. I'm picturing a snappy slogan, stickers, t-shirts, appearances on political commentary shows and late night tv. Basically a viral movement with a game plan that some legislators would be tempted to adopt and turn into a bill because it would appeal to voters who'd be more likely to support them.

It would probably need to change both party funding, and move toward ranked choice voting. One massive hurdle would be overturning Citizens United.

Whatever could be done 2025 would be the year to launch it. Anything but our perennial cycle of this same fucking conversation on an election year followed by a four year break in thinking about it.

this is a great point/idea.

On my trip back from the hospital, I was thinking, A third party President with no or very fellow party members in Congress would be able to achieve very little.

Gramsci wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 12:03 pm I find the US political party structures very weird.

cakes wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 12:04 pm

PASTA wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 12:00 pm

losthighway wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 8:05 am

I think what we need is a popular, grassroots legislative platform. It would need to be engineered by experts: lawyers, constitutional law scholars, people who have worked within the electoral system, but it would need to be fronted by a charismatic spokesperson. I'm picturing a snappy slogan, stickers, t-shirts, appearances on political commentary shows and late night tv. Basically a viral movement with a game plan that some legislators would be tempted to adopt and turn into a bill because it would appeal to voters who'd be more likely to support them.

It would probably need to change both party funding, and move toward ranked choice voting. One massive hurdle would be overturning Citizens United.

Whatever could be done 2025 would be the year to launch it. Anything but our perennial cycle of this same fucking conversation on an election year followed by a four year break in thinking about it.

this is a great point/idea.

On my trip back from the hospital, I was thinking, A third party President with no or very fellow party members in Congress would be able to achieve very little.

The last DSA meeting I went to, they were arguing over the diversity panel not being diverse enough. There were already 11 people on the panel representing 11 different aspects of diversity. Now, the DSA is no longer endorsing AOC because she supports Biden. I feel like the DSA doesn't see the bigger picture, just like most socialist organizations. It's very frustrating to watch it happen.

Getting a third-party is going to take a lot more work than just a charismatic figure. There's too many mountains to climb and viable third parties are building their own foothills.

cakes wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 11:59 am I watched Kamala Harris' Wisconsin address last night. I gotta admit, it was refreshing to see a democrat not be stiff and lifeless and to call a spade a spade on Donald Trump. Did anyone else watch? The crowd started changing "Not Going Back" which I think is an awesome antidote to "Make America Great Again."

cakes wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 12:08 pm

Gramsci wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 12:03 pm I find the US political party structures very weird.

You should understand that Ross Perot--a strong third party candidate--basically helped Clinton defeat Bush senior. He did such a great job getting people to vote for him that both parties basically got together and made it so that third parties no longer could muster enough power to affect any election. Ralph Nader tried, and they doubled down. So, the system has been corrupted by the parties, which people forget are private organizations.

Gramsci wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 4:41 am Just fucking vote for Harris for fucks sake. It achieves the opposite effect you are aiming for by abstaining or voting Third Party under a ludicrous two party system. You’re not sending anyone a message, you’re helping elect monsters.

Teacher's Pet wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 12:44 pm

cakes wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 11:59 am I watched Kamala Harris' Wisconsin address last night. I gotta admit, it was refreshing to see a democrat not be stiff and lifeless and to call a spade a spade on Donald Trump. Did anyone else watch? The crowd started changing "Not Going Back" which I think is an awesome antidote to "Make America Great Again."

I'm not coming here to be a cheerleader but I will say that I did watch the Wisconsin speech on Youtube last night and I felt relieved to see Trump's opponent speaking clearly and not-garbled nor stammering nor bumbling. I sort of felt like "I can't believe we almost didn't do this."

When I posed this question, it was because I thought there was a real chance that keeping Biden was the wrong move and they might have been throwing the election. I was interested to see how other people perceived the situation. Some agreed, others didn't, but there was an uncertainty that seemed to pervade almost across the board.

Up until recently I thought it could still go either way. Then there was the debate performance. You can put that down to all manner of things but what counts is how the general public see things and there was a definite shift away from Biden. Soon after we had the shooting and it wasn't looking good for a Biden win. The public conversation around his abilities wouldn't have done the Dems any favours either.

Things feel a little brighter now. There's a new energy to the campaign and all of trump's complaints about age and cognitive abilities are shining a light on his age and word salads. Young people seem to feel like they have a stake again, record donations in favour of Kamala Harris, new endorements from people that hadn't thrown their hat into the ring etc. etc.

For all the talk about Kamala not polling well and whatever else, I really feel she can win this.

The online stuff I'm seeing has republicans and trump supporters looking like they're panicking. They worked out their campaign and attack methods against Biden a while ago and him stepping down has thrown them into disarray. They also don't seem to have figured out the best way to attack Kamala. All they have right now is misogyny, a touch of racism and outright lies. Their desperation is palpable.

I'm finding the misogyny amusing (not suggesting misogyny itself is amusing) because you would think after alienating women with the reversal of Roe V Wade they might try to woo them back, but in typical republican style they're going all in on showing them just how much they think of them as second class citizens.

Curry Pervert wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 7:05 pm

Gramsci wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 4:41 am Just fucking vote for Harris for fucks sake. It achieves the opposite effect you are aiming for by abstaining or voting Third Party under a ludicrous two party system. You’re not sending anyone a message, you’re helping elect monsters.

^ x1000.

Lu Zwei wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2024 4:16 am

Curry Pervert wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 7:05 pm

Gramsci wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2024 4:41 am Just fucking vote for Harris for fucks sake. It achieves the opposite effect you are aiming for by abstaining or voting Third Party under a ludicrous two party system. You’re not sending anyone a message, you’re helping elect monsters.

^ x1000.

My point exactly!