I think the whole art/artist issue is case by case. But shitty relationship stuff aside it also comes down to how much people open their mouths.

Plenty of artists hold “good” and “bad” views on global affairs but just aren’t interested in imparting that opinion to the masses. Cave is clearly someone that revels in his sense of self importance. Being humble is just as easy.

jeff fox wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:41 pm Some of my absolute least favorite music. All of it. I can't hang with it. For years I thought it was all the drama and theatrics that turned me off, but a few nights ago, I was lucky enough to see Pulp here in Chicago...and it doesn't get much more dramatic and theatrical than Jarvis Cocker. But he was absolutely fucking brilliant. What separates the two of them? I don't see the charm in Nick Cave, I see pomposity. Jarvis had an obvious, genuine love for the audience and a humility about him. Not to mention some of the best fucking songs of the last 40 years. And RELATABLE songs delivered with incomparable wit! Maybe that's it. Pulp: NC, WF0. Nick Cave: CRAP.

This take. This is the good take.

Maybe I'm out of the loop or it's b/c I'm not on any social media, but I've always thought Cave was pretty self-effacing, w/a decent sense of humor about his own shtick. Granted, it was still the '80s, but his quote about playing "entertainment music, although some might call it corn... I've just found myself usually more affected by the cliches in pop, in art, in life" has always informed my reading of his music and persona. There is definitely a degree of knowing schlock to his thing. (Granted, before that decade ended, it kinda ate what I enjoyed about his records musically.)

And I do personally agree w/his stance on not boycotting songs b/c of the artist's political opinions or persona. It's always been really perverse to me that people analyze and hold fast to this when it comes to something as abstract (and occasionally, stupid and trivial) as music—whereas some of the same people rarely wonder whether a team of 4chan incels might have designed the overtly violent video game they happen to be playing that was probably funded by Silicon Valley cash. For me, both are fine, and there's an element of fantasy to both works that's separate from the creators. I also feel like people giving so much credence to Cave running his mouth to seem quotable or having a crappy opinion gives him way, way more power and influence than he actually has.

I dunno, when I find out someone is a creep, I can't listen anymore.
I've always loved Sonic Youth, but just this week saw the video where they mocked and assaulted Nardwuar, was particularly disgusted with how Lee Ranaldo was mocking him as disabled, no better than when Trump did the same to that journalist. Can't listen to them now, song came on and I recoiled.
Same with Bowie etc., you fucked a 14 year old in the bath, go to hell.

But Cave/Radiohead, it's a different scenario. Johnny Greenwood just played a festival in Tel Aviv, he can get fucked.

the corpo wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2024 10:36 am Can't listen to them now, song came on and I recoiled.

Literally? I'm just trying to picture it.

I like the conflation of Narduwar teasing with molestation and ethnic cleansing as impeachable offenses.

I'm surprised people are digging the new record. To me it sounds like a crappy Spiritualized musically, with Cave trying to be all elder statesmany. The wife and I both can't jive with it, and we both liked numerous incarnations of his work across the years. I guess they just announced a Chicago show, and we can't get our nuts up to care, and the previous shows I've seen from him were all great.

I don't think Sonic Youth need to be retroactively canceled despite being dicks to Narduwar.

The biggest asshole Nard had so suffer was that twat of Blur drummer. Hope he gets a severe case of hemorroids.

Krev wrote: I don't think Sonic Youth need to be retroactively canceled despite being dicks to Narduwar.

You're too late, friend. There's definitely a Thurston-had-an-affair-so-he-must-be-a-sexist-pig-and-I-can't-listen-to-him-anymore element online that was making a lot of noise for a spell, if not quite canceling the band outright. Thankfully, it seems to have died down lately. Personally, I think people's marriages aren't anyone's business except maybe their own and/or their kids'. But the new puritans (to quote the Fall) of the digital age seem to think otherwise. [musters best grandpa voice] Reminds me of churchy housewives commenting on tabloid-celeb behavior in the '80s, I'll tell you. I do long for the days when nonmainstream culture seemed "above" such triflings.

Krev wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2024 12:22 pm I don't think Sonic Youth need to be retroactively canceled despite being dicks to Narduwar.

Yeah, really. Thurston was a dick to Kim, which is bad enough.